Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....

meh.... none of his olympic feats were longer than 4 minutes.

Anybody can swim if they want to. Our two existing local long course pools are located in predominantly black neighborhoods and easily accessible to anyone. This includes economically challenged, or wealthy individuals of every race.

Sojerz, I totally agree, and the diversity of phelps is the singular issue that makes me consider him the GOAT in the Olympics 16 Olympic events including relays. Gold medals in 8 different events. Could have medaled in the 100 free the past two Olympics Not unlikely he could have medaled in one or both backstrokes if he trained for Them. He was ranked 10th in the world in the 400 free once upon a time despite not really training for it. Anyone want to bet against him making the team and finaling in that if he chose to? There is no denying Bolts dominance in the 100 and 200, over two olympics. And if he does it again in 2016 then we can revisit this conversation, but he isnt high jumping, long jumpIng, trying the hurdles or the 400. Phelps diversity, longevity and dominance (note his margin of victory in the IMs, 200 free and fly) and his ability to deliver under pressure make him the no brainer as GOAT, even if you throw total medals out. And it drives me nuts when people say "swimming is just swimming, no diversity". Ask them, how many bReastroke gold medal winners medaled in another stroke? How many backstrokers medal in butterfly or free? How many guys are medal contenders in free, back, fly And IM in distances from 100 to 400 meters?

Why should running be the arbiter of what great Olympians are made of? It's not as if he's playing some sport like table tennis where winning is based primarily on skill rather than fitness. Let's take Phelps versus Usain Bolt and do a swim-run race because running is the measuring stick here. They both do a 100 meter dash on the track immediately followed by a 100 meter sprint. Like a biathlon. Winner is the best Olympian. Phelps: 100 meter dash: 18 seconds 100 meter swim: 48 seconds Usain: 100 meter dash: 10 seconds 100 meter swim: 68 seconds Winner Phelps. Best Olympian ever.

If Bolt could swim 100M in 68 sec I would be very impressed. Same if Phelps could do 100 meters on a track in 18. :) BTW...The movie is called Pride...Pride - Trailer - YouTube

Swimming is a global sport, though. There were medalists from all six populated continents in London. I'm a bit of a baseball stat fanatic and there's always a debate about who the greatest baseball players in history are. One of the points of contention is how much weight peak value should have compared to career value. How does a guy like Sandy Koufax who had a short career compare with Cy Young, for example? If we look at Olympians in those term I think Phelps really shines. Not only did he win eight medals in a single Olympics, but he also has the most total Olympic medals ever amassed. I don't think there's any way you can successfully argue for anyone being a greater Olympian than Michael Phelps. The only people that do are those who think, for whatever reason, that swimming isn't a "real" sport.

I don't even know what people think they are arguing about with this "greatest ever" stuff. Michael Phelps is rather good at swimming. Agreed?

Interesting you would mention this subject, which the New York Times seems to have addressed a week ago (www.nytimes.com/.../why-olympic-records-are-broken-or-not.html). I though the author had an interesting take on it, and it sounds similar to the OP's points.

I don't think Phelps came from an upper class background either. Remember his mother was a working single parent seeking to channel her son's high energy. He started swimming in a group swim program.