My apologies up front for asking a question that has been asked on various different threads over the past couple of years I have been in USMS. I don't remember the responses, however, and can't seem to find the answers in my searches.
Here's the deal: I started as a breaststroker and only competed in the three breaststroke events as a newbie. Seven months later, however, I competed in a pentathlon and found I really enjoyed racing the stroke sprints and 100 IM. Last year, I ended up winning my age group and felt even more encouraged to continue working on my other strokes.
Recently, I attempted an easy 400 IM in workout to see if I could swim a 100 fly without pausing at the walls. I came in at 7:24 :cane:, but it wasn't the worst in my age group in the rankings! :D
Today, after my usual three day post-meet bout of insomnia, I thought, what the heck, I'll try it again. (Yes, I AM crazy!) Again, I took the fly out very easy with the intent of surviving without rescue. My time ended up 7:16, now placing me 56 out of 71 in my age group; still low, but improved. :wiggle: So, now, I'm thinking of giving it some real effort and see where I can go with this...
50 breaststroke is my best event, followed by 100 breaststroke. After that is 50 free and 100 IM. Don't even ask where my 200 breaststroke rates... :bitching: But, my 400 IM, with some effort, will have it beat soon enough.
As a six day per week swimmer on pace to beat my goal of 400 miles for the year, how would you recommend I plan my swim week out to train 400 IM without losing breaststroke speed? I average 3,000 yards per workout and currently dedicate Mondays and Fridays to Allen's breaststroke sets or Ande's sprint IM sets that he wrote up for me. Saturday is my recovery day. September thru May, I train in a challenging coached adult program and swim 3,500 - 3,800yards; a mix of speed, endurance, etc.
Any advice or suggestions would be most appreciated! (Oh, and, by the way, I am working up to swimming 400m IM and 200yd fly, too.) :afraid:I hope to swim 400IM at Dixie Zone Championships, in August, and see where it goes from there. :worms:
Hey Geek, I went over to the dark side the other day and paid a visit to the animal lane, taking Kirk's advice of doing 30+ minutes of continuous swimming, to work on endurance. I swam 2,000 yards of continuous butterfly (46+ minutes :blush: ).
http://youtu.be/4PJouksr3wIhttp://youtu.be/BfKKZa3uUYM
Does that make me an animal or still just an insect? ;)
2k straight fly!?!
you crazy, that's why you are the Elaine-Iak.
my suggestion is don't swim sloppy fly
I did this set today; a challenge from my coach. The goal was to only rest 30-40 seconds between each IM, but I needed more rest at times:
800 IM (rested :49)
600 IM (R :33)
400 IM (R :48)
200 IM (R :31)
100 IM
After swimming the 800 IM and 600 IM, the 400 IM seemed easy! I highly recommend this set to work on endurance and speed. I tried to pace myself on fly and back to survive the 800, 600, and 400, however, I swam the *** and free as hard as I could. On the 200 and 100, I gave the entire IM everything I had left in the tank.
If anybody has any feedback on this type of set, I would be curious to hear your comments/ suggestions/ advice. Thanks!
First of all, welcome back to all you Forumites who swam in Omaha. Congratulations on a great meet! It was fun watching the livestreaming of your races and :cheerleader: you on from my desk chair. (Yes, my husband thought I was crazy... :afraid:)
Fort, after reading the advice in this thread, I took your suggestion and have been dividing my training into HIT days and HV days. Once in awhile (like today), I will do my sprint training, then decide to swim a timed 1,000 (or whatever) at the end, before my cooldown. My priority is still sprint, but I am finding I am enjoying those long hard swims more and more. And, I am enjoying the challenge of 400 IM and 200 fly, as I try to increase my speed.
So, here is my question, Forumites:
How do I know if I am better suited to be a sprinter or a distance swimmer? (Or, for that matter, mid-D?)
I'll admit that Geek's post has stuck in my mind. :afraid:He really did bring up a good point when he suggested that perhaps I think I am a sprinter when I may be better at mid-D or distance. It was what I was thrown into as a high school swimmer, because I liked swimming breaststroke and the coach needed me in those events. But, I have never trained for any events other than sprints and 200 breaststroke.
I would love to have that blood analysis done where lactate clearance is tested. But, I don't know where that can be done, since I missed out on the opportunity at 2010 Spring Nationals.
When I look at where I rank in the events I have competed in, I rank from highest to lowest: 50 br, 100 br, 50 fr, 100 IM, 100 fr, 50 bk, 200 br, 50 fly. But, I have never competed in any other events. At Dixie Zone Championships, I will try 200 fly, 400 IM, and, possibly 800 free for the first time. (I haven't sent in my ap. yet; I am still deciding...) But, I don't know if results at that meet would be a fair comparison, since I haven't been training distance for that long and I will be competing in those events for the first time.
So, Forumites, what do you think? What would be your advice for determining whether I am best suited for sprints or distance?
Thanks!
:D
How do I know if I am better suited to be a sprinter or a distance swimmer? (Or, for that matter, mid-D?) Train everything, swim anything, and see what strengths emerge. I have discovered that, with some practice at it, I am decent at the 50 backstroke, though I am not really a sprinter. Who knew? :dunno:
Train everything, swim anything, and see what strengths emerge. I have discovered that, with some practice at it, I am decent at the 50 backstroke, though I am not really a sprinter. Who knew? :dunno:
Well, that would be the simplest approach, I guess!
This is my event line-up for Dixie Zone (bold are new events for me):
Day 1: 50 fr, 100 br, 50 back, 100 fly, 400 free
Day 2: 50 br, 200 fly, 100 br in Mixed Medley Relay, 200 br (?), 50 fly, 400 IM. I am considering cutting out the 200 br in favor of 800 free, because of where it falls in the line-up. If I keep the 200, I would be swimming a triple back-to-back of: 100 br in relay, 200 br, 50 fly. :afraid:Cutting out the 200 would give me a break in between. The 800 is immediately after the 400 IM, but I will provide my practice time rather than "NT" to get me in a later (hopefully!) heat. And, it's the last event of the day, so I can leave what I have left in the pool.
How's that for swimming anything? :D
Elaine, I agree that you should try every stroke and event at every distance, to find out where your skills lie. You may find that you're a sprint breaststroker, but more of a distance swimmer in another stroke or event. Try 'em all, because (to borrow a phrase) you never know unless you go.
IM is a good training emphasis since it works all the strokes and muscles and maxes you out aerobically.
I agree with Ande's caution against sloppy fly. While you've really proven something to yourself with the ultra-fly, I would revert now to the traditional race distances for fly and IM and try to really hone your fly technique (finding and holding your ideal stroke count throughout). Bottom line: anything resembling geezer fly can make it harder to eventually get to your best potential racing fly style.
Rock bottom line: be proud, you're stretching your abilities into uncharted aqua incognita.
:wave: Hi Woofus! Thanks for your input on this; I always respect your opinions and advice. Yeah, that geezer fly was just to prove to myself that I could push my limits more than I think I can. I see no point in pushing it past 2,000 yards, because I could end up pushing my shoulders into scary (painful) territory. And, as much as I like my surgeon, I really have no intention on returning to have my right shoulder operated on for thoracic outlet syndrome! :afraid:
Having said that (and knowing I escaped my 900 fly and 2,000 fly with no repercussions), swimming distance geezer fly those two times gave me the confidence I needed to race more difficult events. Every time I practice my 200 fly and 400 IM, I say to myself, "If you can swim 2,000 fly, surely you can do this." Now, I'm just trying to pick up the pace so it more closely resembles my :39 - 50 fly (still slowww), rather than my one-minute pace geezer fly :cane: , when I swim a 200 fly.
I love training IM's; daisy IM's, as you recommended, or regular IM's, starting with an 800 and working my way down. Unfortunately, after doing an 800, 600, 400, 200, and 100 IM, I'm too shot to go back up! But, I agree; training IM's has been great to improve my aerobic capacity and build strength.
So, you agree with That Guy; try it all! I'm off to a good start doing that this year. I swam eight different events, back in February, at the Auburn meet, and will swim my first OW 3k and 1k, this Saturday. At Dixie Zone, I have decided to pass on the 200m br in favor of swimming the 800m fr; the last event of the day, after my 400 IM. In all, I will be swimming five completely new events in two days.
Thanks, Woofus! :agree:
So, Forumites, what do you think? What would be your advice for determining whether I am best suited for sprints or distance? /QUOTE]
I'll second That Guy's advice, but stop after 4 words ...
... and just encourage you to mix and match events every season. Naturally, you'll want to pick different focal events as you approach your taper meet, but I think you should play around with any and all events as much as possible.
Well, except for the 2,000 fly ... that's just :afraid:
Thanks for weighing in, Patrick! It sounds like the advice is unanimous and it all came from opinions I respect and appreciate. :agree:
As for that 2,000 fly, see my post to Woofus... :D
Looking at your BR I think your stroke is very suited to the 200 BR.I suspect the reason your 50 is so much better has been that it is hard for you to train distance BR with intensity given your physical limitations.Since those same limitations are evidently less relevant for the other strokes,your IM and fly training will almost certainly help your 200 BR.
I say swim the stuff that seems fun to you and play around with different events.
You should probably do the "Check off Challenge" to do each event in one year (some can be done in workout if you want.) You get a nice T Shirt just to sign up.
Looking at your BR I think your stroke is very suited to the 200 BR.I suspect the reason your 50 is so much better has been that it is hard for you to train distance BR with intensity given your physical limitations.Since those same limitations are evidently less relevant for the other strokes,your IM and fly training will almost certainly help your 200 BR.
I say swim the stuff that seems fun to you and play around with different events.
You should probably do the "Check off Challenge" to do each event in one year (some can be done in workout if you want.) You get a nice T Shirt just to sign up.
I have thought a lot about this and came to the same conclusion. How is it that I have the strength and endurance to swim 2,000 yards of fly (even if it is geezer fly), but can't swim beyond 200 yards of breaststroke without losing strength in my arms? Fortunately, with your medical knowledge you get why I can't. Breaststroke is the only stroke where the arms stay in front of the shoulders throughout the stroke (except for the turn). The other three strokes allow the thoracic outlet to open up when the arms go down and/or behind the shoulders. That makes all the difference in the world; especially since my right side was never operated on and I still have my first rib to shut off blood flow, as well as the nerves.
I can repeat 25's and 50's of breaststroke with no problem, as long as I have a rest interval to allow my arms to hang down. And, training your breaststroke sprint workout is no problem, because the sprint is followed by easy free. But, my arms shut down on 200 to the point where I lose valuable time. To swim strong on the back half of a 200, I have to really take it easy on the front half. But, my total time suffers. Contrast that with the distance free races I have been practicing and I have negative split every time. Even my 2,000 fly splits and stroke count stayed consistent for a lot of it.
The 200 breaststroke is not fun to me for those reasons. I have been trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. And, it feels like :frustrated:
The Check Off Challenge sounds perfect for me- thanks! And, thanks for your input, King Frog. You know how much I respect your opinions, too! :applaud:
