My apologies up front for asking a question that has been asked on various different threads over the past couple of years I have been in USMS. I don't remember the responses, however, and can't seem to find the answers in my searches.
Here's the deal: I started as a breaststroker and only competed in the three breaststroke events as a newbie. Seven months later, however, I competed in a pentathlon and found I really enjoyed racing the stroke sprints and 100 IM. Last year, I ended up winning my age group and felt even more encouraged to continue working on my other strokes.
Recently, I attempted an easy 400 IM in workout to see if I could swim a 100 fly without pausing at the walls. I came in at 7:24 :cane:, but it wasn't the worst in my age group in the rankings! :D
Today, after my usual three day post-meet bout of insomnia, I thought, what the heck, I'll try it again. (Yes, I AM crazy!) Again, I took the fly out very easy with the intent of surviving without rescue. My time ended up 7:16, now placing me 56 out of 71 in my age group; still low, but improved. :wiggle: So, now, I'm thinking of giving it some real effort and see where I can go with this...
50 breaststroke is my best event, followed by 100 breaststroke. After that is 50 free and 100 IM. Don't even ask where my 200 breaststroke rates... :bitching: But, my 400 IM, with some effort, will have it beat soon enough.
As a six day per week swimmer on pace to beat my goal of 400 miles for the year, how would you recommend I plan my swim week out to train 400 IM without losing breaststroke speed? I average 3,000 yards per workout and currently dedicate Mondays and Fridays to Allen's breaststroke sets or Ande's sprint IM sets that he wrote up for me. Saturday is my recovery day. September thru May, I train in a challenging coached adult program and swim 3,500 - 3,800yards; a mix of speed, endurance, etc.
Any advice or suggestions would be most appreciated! (Oh, and, by the way, I am working up to swimming 400m IM and 200yd fly, too.) :afraid:I hope to swim 400IM at Dixie Zone Championships, in August, and see where it goes from there. :worms:
distance, which is the most pure form of swimming.
Apparently we are all, evolutionally speaking, endurance athletes by nature.
www.slate.com/.../long_distance_running_and_evolution_why_humans_can_outrun_horses_but_can_t_jump_higher_than_cats_.html
I also think that it is fairly hard to be really good at both sprinting and distance. I don't know many 50 swimmers who are also great d swimmers, and vice versa.
It is true that it is almost impossible to simultaneously optimize both endurance and speed, but you can get pretty good at both. Witness Sun Yang's blazing last 50 in his 1500 WR effort.
But the 400 IM, especially short course, is not a true distance effort in the same sense as the mile (or the longer OW swims). Middle-distance training that emphasizes both aerobic and speed training can get you pretty good at both. And there is one indisputable truth in masters swimming: there are far fewer people willing to do the 400 IM than any 50. Willingness to swim it, much less train for it, puts you in rarified territory!
Worst idea ever for sprinters. I would suggest the reverse if you're going to do both (ugh) in the same workout. Sprint first; otherwise, you'll be too tired for real AFAP work.
Allen may have the best idea. Work on 400 IM technique and longer slower swimming on your aerobic/recovery days from HIT. You definitely can't do HIT 6x a week. 6x is already a lot of swimming. And if you already tend toward injury, combining HIT and HV could be tricky.
I think Kirk was simply saying that you don't have to designate every day as a pure aerobic or pure anaerobic day, that you can do both on the same day. I do it all the time. I agree with you that you shouldn't always do the same thing first, because whatever you do second will suffer a little bit. One day you can do speedwork first, the next you can do distance first.
I think sprint training is as much neurological as physical, too. Just doing AFAP work while keeping your technique together helps. It is okay if you are a LITTLE tired going into it, but you can't be so tired that you don't truly hit the high intensities. (It works the other way too: if you are tired from AFAP efforts, it is harder to do aerobic swims at a decent pace.)
Many here seem to be classifing training days or sets as either wholly aerobic or completely speed-focused. You can have sets that are a mix of the two, not to mention lactate-tolerance sets. If you do (say) a 2000-yd set of any kind with a modest amount of rest (say, a 2:1 or 3:1 swim:rest ratio) you'll get a mix of aerobic and anaerobic training as long as you work the swims pretty hard. Since the 400IM itself is neither fully aerobic or anaerobic, it isn't a bad thing to do.
Another piece of advice: work on fly technique do that your efficiency is good enough that you can do a decent 100 fly with a minimum of effort. If you have to work too hard on that first 100, the last 150 yards of the 400 IM is never very fun.
distance, which is the most pure form of swimming.
Apparently we are all, evolutionally speaking, endurance athletes by nature.
www.slate.com/.../long_distance_running_and_evolution_why_humans_can_outrun_horses_but_can_t_jump_higher_than_cats_.html
I also think that it is fairly hard to be really good at both sprinting and distance. I don't know many 50 swimmers who are also great d swimmers, and vice versa.
It is true that it is almost impossible to simultaneously optimize both endurance and speed, but you can get pretty good at both. Witness Sun Yang's blazing last 50 in his 1500 WR effort.
But the 400 IM, especially short course, is not a true distance effort in the same sense as the mile (or the longer OW swims). Middle-distance training that emphasizes both aerobic and speed training can get you pretty good at both. And there is one indisputable truth in masters swimming: there are far fewer people willing to do the 400 IM than any 50. Willingness to swim it, much less train for it, puts you in rarified territory!
Worst idea ever for sprinters. I would suggest the reverse if you're going to do both (ugh) in the same workout. Sprint first; otherwise, you'll be too tired for real AFAP work.
Allen may have the best idea. Work on 400 IM technique and longer slower swimming on your aerobic/recovery days from HIT. You definitely can't do HIT 6x a week. 6x is already a lot of swimming. And if you already tend toward injury, combining HIT and HV could be tricky.
I think Kirk was simply saying that you don't have to designate every day as a pure aerobic or pure anaerobic day, that you can do both on the same day. I do it all the time. I agree with you that you shouldn't always do the same thing first, because whatever you do second will suffer a little bit. One day you can do speedwork first, the next you can do distance first.
I think sprint training is as much neurological as physical, too. Just doing AFAP work while keeping your technique together helps. It is okay if you are a LITTLE tired going into it, but you can't be so tired that you don't truly hit the high intensities. (It works the other way too: if you are tired from AFAP efforts, it is harder to do aerobic swims at a decent pace.)
Many here seem to be classifing training days or sets as either wholly aerobic or completely speed-focused. You can have sets that are a mix of the two, not to mention lactate-tolerance sets. If you do (say) a 2000-yd set of any kind with a modest amount of rest (say, a 2:1 or 3:1 swim:rest ratio) you'll get a mix of aerobic and anaerobic training as long as you work the swims pretty hard. Since the 400IM itself is neither fully aerobic or anaerobic, it isn't a bad thing to do.
Another piece of advice: work on fly technique do that your efficiency is good enough that you can do a decent 100 fly with a minimum of effort. If you have to work too hard on that first 100, the last 150 yards of the 400 IM is never very fun.
