Butterfly Kick

I'm very interested to see what our forumite experts have to say about this. For now I just want to add a comment. It appears to me that different swimmers have been successful with rather different kicks. I believe that Mary T. used a kick with not much bending of the knees. There isn't good underwater footage, but you can see it a little here: Mary T. Meagher - YouTube and perhaps a little better here, especially near the finish: 1984 Olympic Women's 200m Butterfly final - Mary T. Meagher - YouTube Phelps, on the other hand, has a very pronounced flex in his knees. You can see it here: Michael Phelps - Butterfly 01 - YouTube (I think this has been referred to as "shin kicking") U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

The fin extends past the ends of your feet and would extend out of the water when your feet would not. I think fins are a good way to strengthen your legs and core but I don't think they are good for perfecting your kick. In light of Karl's comment, I should say that I consider myself to be a forumite - but not an expert

I love fins for working on dolphin kick!!! And dolphin kick is my best stroke. :D You cannot learn to use the monofin in one session unless you have a strong core and are a solid kicker. It takes awhile to get used to it and harness the power. Most people go flying into other lanes at first. And it can be exhausting; it's like a weight workout in the water and thus excellent for swim specific strength building. I use the Shooter to work both DPK (distance per kick) and AFAP kicking. For DPK work, which is much slower -- usually consisting of easy speed shooters (25s underwater) on side/back/belly -- I definitely bend my knees. For AFAP work not as much but still some. I use a very high cycle kick (with and without fins) for AFAP efforts and most of power comes from the glutes/hips/quads. I think you're still using the lower leg though, but possibly it doesn't feel as if you are with the fin. Without the fin, you can feel a bit more snap with the knee & lower leg & ankles. The same goes for me when swimming butterfly. I will have more knee bend in a 100 than a 50, but some with both. It's not an underwater view, but here's a vid of me doing a 50 AFAP with the monofin (sub :20). Not much bent knee action. www.youtube.com/watch I also use the fin with a kickboard.

Phelps, on the other hand, has a very pronounced flex in his knees. Misty Hyman seems to, also: zmiyhPop6GI

Misty Hyman seems to, also: I think pretty much anyone you see from underwater will be seen to have more knee bend than they appear to have from the surface.

It's not an underwater view, but here's a vid of me doing a 50 AFAP with the monofin (sub :20). Not much bent knee action. www.youtube.com/watch I also use the fin with a kickboard. Wow, that's fast!

I think my biggest surprise was that when I train w/o the monofin I kick like hell from the knees down (normal fly)--with the fin I really have to crunch my core to get any snap on the fin. I have always attempted to swim on top of the water when flying--if I change my kick this results in much more body deflection when I use the fin--maybe this is good?? Looking for help/opinions! This fin has me goofy!

I think my biggest surprise was that when I train w/o the monofin I kick like hell from the knees down (normal fly)--with the fin I really have to crunch my core to get any snap on the fin. I have always attempted to swim on top of the water when flying--if I change my kick this results in much more body deflection when I use the fin--maybe this is good?? Looking for help/opinions! This fin has me goofy! So you're swimming full stroke fly with the monofin? I never do that b/c I feel too "jacked up" from the fin. You don't want to be coming out of the water too high. I just use it for kicking, for which the Shooter is principally intended. If you can learn to kick fast with the fin, it will improve your leg strength and dolphin kick. That in turn will improve your fly and SDKs off the walls.

I came to understand that the only way I could propel myself forward was by ceasing any knee movement and kicking only through my gut and letting my lower legs move at the end of the oscilation. Exactly! IMO. To me that's how it should be done, not much of a kick from the knee. I'm not there yet...but it's better!

That makes more sense than what I am attempting to do. With the stroke I am forced out of the water vs horizontal to it plus I have no since of timing. I guess the bottom line is that the kick needs to be more core vs lower legs. I worry though that I may porpoise a little too much ( crunching the head and chest down to get the leg release) and not swim on top of the water.