Greensboro Nats - Who's In?

If you're planning the 1650, I'll be sure I'm there early enough on Thursday to count or just watch. I may swim the 1000 instead because it is in the morning (and my daughter has tickets to Young the Giant Thursday evening). I would be honored to have you count for me.

To be honest, I don't think they should allow anyone who is competing to do the measurements, even if properly trained. It's too much of a conflict of interest. If the pool ends up being too short you might be tempted to say "close enough." You mention the Canadian meet staff wouldn't need to do anything differently, but they would if the pool turns out to be short. They'd have to delay the meet and move the bulkhead. Either that or tell you to take a hike! :canada::bolt: The form doesn't have any requirements related to who can make the measurements. www.usms.org/.../gto_rectab_pool_measurement.pdf

Uh oh, here it comes again ... All the cool people will be in Kelowna ... And we'll have a few USMS folks from Cd'A, Idaho along with us too. One of them will probably be setting a few WRs in the female 25-29 age group too! :applaud: Fort saw it coming last year ... Very odd situation where one could get a WR but not a NR? And sure enough, Odd indeed, but apparently that's exactly what's happened. This swim, from the Canadian Championships, set a WR (it's already listed in the WR progression on the FINA site), but apparently is not being accepted as a USMS record, or for the TT: Women 65-69 50 Meter Butterfly Finals ======================================= Pl Name Age Club Seed Time Final Time ======================================= 1 Uustal, Diann B 65 MESC 34.58 35.06 As a USMS newbie, with no knowledge of or responsibility for the rulemaking process, it is easy for me to say, "Hey! It would be nice if the national standards were aligned with the international standards, you know? Then stuff like this wouldn't happen!" But that is just easy to say. It may be hard to do. jaadams1, if the meet is SCM with a bulkhead, and if your friend cares about USMS national records, it may be prudent to look into the pool measurement issue in advance, and work out with USMS what additional steps need to be taken to satisfy USMS that the pool is the correct length.

As a USMS newbie, with no knowledge of or responsibility for the rulemaking process, it is easy for me to say, "Hey! It would be nice if the national standards were aligned with the international standards, you know? Then stuff like this wouldn't happen!" But that is just easy to say. It may be hard to do. jaadams1, if the meet is SCM with a bulkhead, and if your friend cares about USMS national records, it may be prudent to look into the pool measurement issue in advance, and work out with USMS what additional steps need to be taken to satisfy USMS that the pool is the correct length. It isn't just national records, USMS top ten currently requires measurements before the meet and after each session in order for the time to be eligible for top ten. Such measurements to verify bulkhead placement at the meet are rare in international competitions and FINA doesn't require it for WRs. I always tell swimmers in my LMSC who are "going international" that, unless the competition course is wall-to-wall, not to count on anything making USMS TT. Records & Tabulation will be submitting a rules proposal to (basically) accept FINA standards for international meets. Whether this gets approved in the fall at convention (in Greensboro, somewhat ironically) is anyone's guess. Caveat emptor.

50 free 50 fly Lucky for you those are on different days.

It isn't just national records, USMS top ten currently requires measurements before the meet and after each session in order for the time to be eligible for top ten. Such measurements to verify bulkhead placement at the meet are rare in international competitions and FINA doesn't require it for WRs. I always tell swimmers in my LMSC who are "going international" that, unless the competition course is wall-to-wall, not to count on anything making USMS TT. Records & Tabulation will be submitting a rules proposal to (basically) accept FINA standards for international meets. Whether this gets approved in the fall at convention (in Greensboro, somewhat ironically) is anyone's guess. Caveat emptor. Chris, would your committee also extend the proposal to accept US-A Swimming standards for USMS members participating in those meets. They do not require measurements to verify bulkhead placement after each session of the meet.

Chris, would your committee also extend the proposal to accept US-A Swimming standards for USMS members participating in those meets. They do not require measurements to verify bulkhead placement after each session of the meet. We will look at that issue separately. Personally I think the international thing has a better chance of passing if it is decoupled from the USA-S issue. It is counterintuitive that a FINA WR is not eligible for USMS top ten or records, this is more a matter of respecting other masters NGBs and FINA masters standards. However, FINA doesn't recognize anything done at a USA-S meet. The committee will look at domestic measurements more generally and decide what (if any) rule proposals to make. But of course, LMSCs can also propose rule changes so if the officers in your LMSC feel strongly about this issue then I encourage your LMSC to submit something.

if the meet is SCM with a bulkhead It is. This is definitely worth checking on. We can certainly make the suggestion that the pool be measured, but I'd hate to be the "Ugly American" and tell them how they should be running their meet.

It is. This is definitely worth checking on. We can certainly make the suggestion that the pool be measured, but I'd hate to be the "Ugly American" and tell them how they should be running their meet. They'll likely refuse based on the email I received from the meet director of Canadian Nats in Montreal last May. I hope the Rules & Tabulation proposal passes. It is bizarre to have different standards than FINA. And the current rule is a actual disincentive for USMS swimmers to travel for meets, another oddity. Will the pool be measured for Worlds this summer? If not, I would assume this would affect USMS attendance.

I think the best solution is to let Chris push for a rule change that will allow USMS to accept what the rest of the world condones. So if the rule change is approved at the Delegates meeting in the fall or 2012, would the meets of the 2012 SCM year be cleared by the new standards (e.g. 2012 Canadian Nats) ?? I'm honestly going to Canadian Nats because it's only a few hours drive north for me, rather than a cross country flight/hotel/food/etc many hundreds of dollar trip for me. If the times work for TT purposes, then great!! I'll measure the dang place myself if I have to each day too. I'm sure Kirk can hold one end of the tape. I'll just be on the end where the numbers actually count. ;)