Fortunately, I did a few other SCM meets and got some swims in. There are others for whom that was their only SCM meet of the season and they ended up getting shut out.
Had I known that my Canadian times would not count I still would have gone to Montreal. It is a half day drive a much cheaper meet and I like the city.
This was my reasoning as well for originally entering into the Canadian Nats this spring. A 4+ hour drive north from my hometown and I'm there. Much cheaper and easier than taking a cross country flight/hotels/etc. to go to USMS Nats in Greensboro. (Don't worry, I'm a full supporter of USMS, I'm just choosing financially this time). :) I've also got teammates going up to Canada who will be taking a motorhome, and have invited me to sleep on the floor. I snatched up that offer quick, and will be taking my sleeping bag along with me. :) That just saved my almost $400 in motel costs right there! :banana: Even better than Geico!
The Canadian National times were not considered for Top Ten. I was originally told that they were not submitted in time, in my case to the DV Top 10 person. Now the rumor is that there was a measurement problem of a technical nature. I assume that the Canadians accurately measured their course which was used for their nationals. I lost 5 or 6 top 10 times. I think the course was accurate in distance. Does anyone know what the technical deficiency is? It should be an interesting story.
The Canadian National times were not considered for Top Ten. I was originally told that they were not submitted in time, in my case to the DV Top 10 person. Now the rumor is that there was a measurement problem of a technical nature. I assume that the Canadians accurately measured their course which was used for their nationals. I lost 5 or 6 top 10 times. I think the course was accurate in distance. Does anyone know what the technical deficiency is? It should be an interesting story.
U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Preliminary Top 10 Listings Available for SCM 2011
Does anyone know why the swims from the South Central Regional Championships in San Antonio in early December were not included in top ten? I believe they were submitted in a timely manner, so maybe a short pool?
So, I'm trying to figure out how a swimmer who wants times to count for top 10 can tell, prior to entering a meet, whether the pool will be legal for such times.
(I'm only referring here to USMS sanctioned meets held in the U.S.)
A quick glance at the sanctioning instructions on the usms web site indicates that sanctions can be granted to short pools, but that the entry form should then indicate that times won't count. So apparently, just having a USMS sanction is insufficient evidence that a meet will produce times that will count? (In a quick look through the entry form for the meet that Karlene refers to, I don't see anything about pool length.)
It seems like you end up entering any meet at your own peril from this perspective, that the pool may end up being not legal even though there's no prior indication.
The complete listings of pool All Americans and pool All-Stars for the 2011 seasons (SCY, SCM and LCM) are now available. To attain All American status a swimmer must post the fasest time in an event/age group over the course of the year. All-Stars are those swimmers who have achieved the most top-ranked times in their age group during the year.
To order an All American Certificate and Patch, send a check for $5 made out to USMS to:
USMS Membership Office
P.O. Box 185
Londonderry, NH 03053-0185
All Stars will receive a special certificate from the USMS.
So, I'm trying to figure out how a swimmer who wants times to count for top 10 can tell, prior to entering a meet, whether the pool will be legal for such times.
One way to know with certainty is if the meet will be in a pool with fixed walls (i.e., no bulkhead) and its length has already been certified.
Perhaps Chris could compile a list of the Top 10 Bugaboos that can keep your times from counting for USMS.
My own little list includes:
Make sure that the meet is either recognized or sanctioned
Make sure that whoever is in charge of submitting your results does this
If you go to a meet that is recognized or sanctioned, do not rely on the meet director necessarily knowing the rules of USMS. One particularly counter-intuitive item I encountered last summer was swimming in an Open event. In age group swimming when I was a kid, this simply meant that anybody of any age could swim it. As a meet last summer, they had the 200 free on one day, and the 200 Open the next day. I opted to swim my 200 free during the 200 Open because of how other events were scheduled. I asked the meet director if this was okay, and he said it was fine. Only much later did I learn that "Open" events in USMS do not count for TT consideration.
If you want to do a split request, or a lead off during a relay, or a time trial and have it count for TT consideration as an individual swim, ask Leslie what to do. The intricacies here are well beyond what most of us can begin to fathom.
So far these are the ways I have gotten times not to count, but I am still relatively young, and I am sure I will discover dozens more!
Feel free to add to this list.
On a slightly different note, does anyone but me think that USMS ultra rigorous stringency in such matters, where meets like Canadian Masters don't count for us but do count for World Records, is a bit analagous to voter ID laws making the rounds in many states today? I.e., an answer in response to a non-existent problem. Even if a pool was a centimeter short, is that really so horrific? Rules that are too minutiae oriented, it seems to me, just send the message that our ranks are filled with fraudsters just waiting for the first chance to take an unfair advantage.
It's masters swimming, not a canonization procedure!
The difference between swimming at sea level and altitude surely trumps a centimeter in the length of a 50 m pool!
Was anybody else slightly disturbed that the decision not to count the Canadian meet came down to a 4-3 vote? I wonder if the voters names could be printed here so we can see which ones are inclined to spirit of the law reasonableness and which are more wedded to inviolable letter of the law rectitude?
Perhaps Chris could compile a list of the Top 10 Bugaboos that can keep your times from counting for USMS.
My own little list includes:
Make sure that the meet is either recognized or sanctioned
Make sure that whoever is in charge of submitting your results does this
If you go to a meet that is recognized or sanctioned, do not rely on the meet director necessarily knowing the rules of USMS. One particularly counter-intuitive item I encountered last summer was swimming in an Open event. In age group swimming when I was a kid, this simply meant that anybody of any age could swim it. As a meet last summer, they had the 200 free on one day, and the 200 Open the next day. I opted to swim my 200 free during the 200 Open because of how other events were scheduled. I asked the meet director if this was okay, and he said it was fine. Only much later did I learn that "Open" events in USMS do not count for TT consideration.
If you want to do a split request, or a lead off during a relay, or a time trial and have it count for TT consideration as an individual swim, ask Leslie what to do. The intricacies here are well beyond what most of us can begin to fathom.
So far these are the ways I have gotten times not to count, but I am still relatively young, and I am sure I will discover dozens more!
Feel free to add to this list.
You can add:
5. Make sure the pool will be/is measured. lol
6. Don't do time trials at USMS meets
7. USA-S meets won't be measured. Make sure it is a fixed wall pool with measurements on file.
8. Pick meets with trusted meet directors. (We have stellar ones in PV.)
9. Just to annoy Geek, I have to note that the Dixie Zone has in the past been suspect when it comes to measuring and timely reporting of both meet results and split requests.
Even if a pool was a centimeter short, is that really so horrific? I don’t see it as horrific. If the pool is short, you swim your race, get your time, write it in your little log book and move on. Is it really so horrific if you don’t see you name in print on some list?
Was anybody else slightly disturbed that the decision not to count the Canadian meet came down to a 4-3 vote? Like you I was slightly disturbed by the vote. I wonder who the 3 were who voted to intentionally disregard the rules.
