When you swim a meet in the US, the results are automatically (in the sense that you don't have to take any particular action yourself) submitted to the Top Ten recorder for the LMSC, are automatically forwarded to USMS, and automatically appear in the Top Ten lists. Something like that.
Almost true. It is supposed to be automatic for USMS-sanctioned meets, though like any system based largely on volunteers it is not infallible. Meets in the US that are Recognized are not automatic, if you swim in such a meet then you are supposed to alert the TTR of your LMSC. You might also need to collect some pool measurements. This is especially true of USA-S meets, which are automatically Recognized by USMS. But obviously TTRs can't spend all their time combing through the results of such meets on the off chance that a USMS member (whom they may not recognize anyway) competed.
But when you swim a meet in Canada, or any other country, it's not automatic. Why would the Canadians submit meet results to an LMSC Top Ten recorder? My guess is that for foreign meets, the USMS Top Ten system does not work automatically.
Like USA-S meets, meets that are sanctioned by a FINA-member body are automatically Recognized by USMS. But again -- and for the same reason -- you have to alert the TTR of your LMSC.
Some large international meets that have many USMS members (eg, FINA masters World Champs) might be submitted by a single person, rather than piecemeal by the TTRs of all the LMSCs represented in the meet. It isn't always an easy task, since there is no guarantee that the meet results will be in a format compatible with our results system (eg, a Meet Manager file). And you have to separate the USMS members from the non-members.
In the case of the Canadian meet, this is what happened. Jim Matysek helpfully uploaded the results to the national results database, which is why the swims appear in the event rankings. But since no TTR uploaded the results, it slipped through the cracks: no one thought to submit it for TT consideration with all their other meets. That is the reason it wasn't in the preliminary TT and it is a fixable problem (BUT see below for another possible problem).
I know for sure, from other sources, that if you break a USMS record in a non-US meet, the record submission forms are not automatically submitted to USMS. It is the swimmer's responsibility to engage the meet officials, provide them with the appropriate USMS forms, and encourage them to submit the time & other needed documentation to USMS. My guess is that something similar is happening here.
Yes, that is exactly correct, the swimmer has a lot of responsibility in Recognized meets, including the responsibility to collect pool measurements if necessary. USMS rules for TT consideration require that bulkhead placement be verified before the meet and after each session.
In this case, I believe the meet director refused to do the measurements:
U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Canadian Masters Swimming Championships 2011
This is not at all unusual for international masters meets, from my (limited) experience. Most facilities have been certified for the proper length, but bulkhead placement is not verified. Whenever a swimmer from my LMSC asks about an international meet, I tell them that their best bet is to go to meets that are run wall-to-wall.
FINA requirements for records and TT are apparently not as strict: bulkhead placement does not have to be verified. So yes, you can theoretically have a situation where a USMS member sets world records and those swims are not eligible for USMS top ten.
That may be what happens here, we are looking into it.
I swam at that meet and it was well run, comparable to US Nationals. Montreal will host the Worlds in 2014. I doubt that the meet directors did anything wrong. Canadians have National records too and set many of them during this particular meet. I can't imagine what the problem is.:canada:
A meet host's responsibility, besides offering a well organized event, includes abiding by its own rules and those of FINA. Sounds like they did this. You can't expect them to know and follow USMS rules that are more strict than FINA's.
When you swim a meet in the US, the results are automatically (in the sense that you don't have to take any particular action yourself) submitted to the Top Ten recorder for the LMSC, are automatically forwarded to USMS, and automatically appear in the Top Ten lists. Something like that.
Almost true. It is supposed to be automatic for USMS-sanctioned meets, though like any system based largely on volunteers it is not infallible. Meets in the US that are Recognized are not automatic, if you swim in such a meet then you are supposed to alert the TTR of your LMSC. You might also need to collect some pool measurements. This is especially true of USA-S meets, which are automatically Recognized by USMS. But obviously TTRs can't spend all their time combing through the results of such meets on the off chance that a USMS member (whom they may not recognize anyway) competed.
But when you swim a meet in Canada, or any other country, it's not automatic. Why would the Canadians submit meet results to an LMSC Top Ten recorder? My guess is that for foreign meets, the USMS Top Ten system does not work automatically.
Like USA-S meets, meets that are sanctioned by a FINA-member body are automatically Recognized by USMS. But again -- and for the same reason -- you have to alert the TTR of your LMSC.
Some large international meets that have many USMS members (eg, FINA masters World Champs) might be submitted by a single person, rather than piecemeal by the TTRs of all the LMSCs represented in the meet. It isn't always an easy task, since there is no guarantee that the meet results will be in a format compatible with our results system (eg, a Meet Manager file). And you have to separate the USMS members from the non-members.
In the case of the Canadian meet, this is what happened. Jim Matysek helpfully uploaded the results to the national results database, which is why the swims appear in the event rankings. But since no TTR uploaded the results, it slipped through the cracks: no one thought to submit it for TT consideration with all their other meets. That is the reason it wasn't in the preliminary TT and it is a fixable problem (BUT see below for another possible problem).
I know for sure, from other sources, that if you break a USMS record in a non-US meet, the record submission forms are not automatically submitted to USMS. It is the swimmer's responsibility to engage the meet officials, provide them with the appropriate USMS forms, and encourage them to submit the time & other needed documentation to USMS. My guess is that something similar is happening here.
Yes, that is exactly correct, the swimmer has a lot of responsibility in Recognized meets, including the responsibility to collect pool measurements if necessary. USMS rules for TT consideration require that bulkhead placement be verified before the meet and after each session.
In this case, I believe the meet director refused to do the measurements:
U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Canadian Masters Swimming Championships 2011
This is not at all unusual for international masters meets, from my (limited) experience. Most facilities have been certified for the proper length, but bulkhead placement is not verified. Whenever a swimmer from my LMSC asks about an international meet, I tell them that their best bet is to go to meets that are run wall-to-wall.
FINA requirements for records and TT are apparently not as strict: bulkhead placement does not have to be verified. So yes, you can theoretically have a situation where a USMS member sets world records and those swims are not eligible for USMS top ten.
That may be what happens here, we are looking into it.
I swam at that meet and it was well run, comparable to US Nationals. Montreal will host the Worlds in 2014. I doubt that the meet directors did anything wrong. Canadians have National records too and set many of them during this particular meet. I can't imagine what the problem is.:canada:
A meet host's responsibility, besides offering a well organized event, includes abiding by its own rules and those of FINA. Sounds like they did this. You can't expect them to know and follow USMS rules that are more strict than FINA's.
