Frank,
I was just presenting information, wasn't trying to insult anyone. Kevin's a remarkable swimmer, it's great he's swimming in USMS meets & breaking records.
I deleted my post & now it only exists because you quoted it.
Should USMS and FINA recognize times done by swimmers of various ages as records even if they aren't usms members or submit the times to USMS or FINA?
Ande:
I might have reacted a little harshly and for that I am sorry but the first time this happened, Kevin quit the forum and you might have remembered it. It was back in 2007, I believe.
To answer your question, I don't believe swimmers of various ages that are non members should credited for USMS and FINA Masters Records. Now I believe that if a swimmer is a USMS member and submits times achieved in USA Swimming meets, then yes they should count as USMS Records.
The one stumbling block in all this is the USMS Rules of multiple pool measurements in USA Swimming meets in which they do not require this to happen. Most swimmers will not go thru this after every session and if they don't, there swims will not count for Records or Top Ten. USA Swimming requires a pool measurement at the beginning of the meet by a registered surveyor for the major meets such as Nationals, Grand Prix's, and US Opens. For the local meets they do not require this.
I don't advocate that USMS should do this because it would be to costly. A measurement is required if a World, American, and US Open record is broken and the surveyor must measure the lane that the swim was competed in. This happened with Peter Vanderkaay when he broke his record in the 500 Free at Oakland University and they had to measure the lane after the meet. I think if a masters swimmer breaks a record he should request a measurement of the lane after the session and be responsible to bring the measuring device preferably a laser. I think his times should be submitted without a measurement if the swimmer did not break a record. I think a USA sanction swim without a record should automatically transfer to USMS if a pool measurement was made at the beginning of the meet.
I don't believe USA swimming times if they are records or not should not count unless they are members. Recently, Natalie Coughlin swam as a USMS registered swimmer in a sanctioned masters meet and requested that her times not count for records or top ten and I believe USMS will honor that request. The point I am making here is not every Olympian, Professional, and masters aged swimmer wants there times to count for USMS and so to just pick up times on the USA Swimming site would not be a good idea.
FINA goes a step further because they want all of the Masters World Records to be done in member nation sanctioned meets. They don't want someone to just buy a membership and never swim in a masters meet to get a Masters World Record. They make the distinction that if you swim in a FINA Member Sanctioned Swim meet, that your times achieved in that meet should be counted for the sanctioned swim meet and nothing else. Its hard to argue with this because they believe if you break a masters record it must be in the masters arena against masters swimmers.
As far as just taking any swimmer in the World and having there swims count for any kinds of records is wrong and could ruin the masters organization because it disrespects the members that do get the top swims and records and they pay and support the organization and strangers do not. I mean why join this organization if you can just swim in non masters meets and get top rewards for doing it.
There are just tons of swimmers that could just destroy our record book being non members of masters around the world. In fact, I have come across this on Top Performance web sites where they give credit to non members as having masters world records when none of these people are members and probably don't care. If a swimmer wants a masters world records, he should register and swim in a masters sanctioned competition. In USMS, he just needs to be a member and follow the rules to get swims counted. That is not asking much, because I am sure they can afford the membership fee to belong to USMS.
This is the second time this has happened on this forum...I wish it was only the second time this has happened.
And thank you for reminding us that we can be proud of the accomplishments of Masters Swimmers, be they Olympian or someone just breaking two minutes in the 50 free.:cheerleader:
And thank you for reminding us that we can be proud of the accomplishments of Masters Swimmers, be they Olympian or someone just breaking two minutes in the 50 free.:cheerleader:
Or breaking 2 seconds on their start reaction time in a 200 fly...:D
Recently, Natalie Coughlin swam as a USMS registered swimmer in a sanctioned masters meet and requested that her times not count for records or top ten and I believe USMS will honor that request.
This is actually an interesting scenario. Should the times not count for records because the swimmer requests them not be counted? I think I can understand what Coughlin was trying to do, but the fact remains that she did establish new USMS records. How can someone opt out of a record?
105.3.8 When a record is claimed, an official USMS record application form (Appendix B) shall be filled out, signed by the designated officials and transmitted…
Still, her times would wipe out others records. She is aware of others liking to be in the record books. She feels , I think,as if she has enough awareness of her times in the Olympics.
