Yes, I know there are workouts and blogs with plenty of set ideas, however, I don't know which ones would be best for my needs and situation. I have Mondays and Fridays nailed down: Ande and King Frog's sprint workouts have been great; no problem there. On Tuesdays and Thursdays, I train at another pool with my part-time coach who coaches a small group of adults. We do a 3500-3800 yard organized workout; the same one he gives his team of kids in the afternoon. It kicks my :censor: ; no problem there.
So, this is where I need help: On Wednesdays and Saturdays, I do a breastroke 25yd sprint ***/25yd recovery free set (8x50's) that Ande recommends I do each day, as well as the 600 yards (150 fast) of breaststroke kick he recommends I do each day (if I swim a total of 3000 yards). Combined with my 800-yard warm-up of free, IM's, and breaststroke drill, it totals 1800 yards. What I am looking for is 1000-1500 yards of sets that are non-sprint sets- but, non-junk yards, to round things out.
Any suggestions? I'm having the most difficult time trying to determine proper intervals, given my swimming level. Here are some sprint times to go by: My 25yd ***, fly, and back sprints from a push off all average :20-:21 and my free averages :17.
I am a breaststroker, however, I would like to improve my 50's in all strokes, in addition to 100 breaststroke. My weakness in all strokes is my kick. And, yes, I do weights 2-3 times each week, so I'm not looking to spend any more time in the weight room. Specifically, I would like some good recovery sets I could do that won't hurt my sprint times.
Thanks!
:chug:
Well, James, I (partly) took your advice for my last swim of the year. After my usual warm-up, I swam:
20x100 on R:20-
100 br/ 100fr/ 100 kick/ 100br k/ 50br-50fr
5x100fr
100 br/ 100fr/ 100 kick/ 100br k/ 50br-50fr
5x100fr
(Focus: Quick turns, DPS, streamline, getting feet turned out on br. kick. Breaststroke was 8-9 strokes/25yd and free was 14-16 strokes.)
I left backstroke and fly out of the mix to give my shoulders a break and swam the 100's sloooow; 1:40's for the free and 1:43's on the breaststroke.
I ended the year with 42.61 miles for the month/ 382.46 miles for the year; waaay more than my original GTD goal of 275! When my surgeon said I would be able to swim again, I don't think he ever believed I would be able to log in THIS many miles with my shoulders... :bliss:
Anyway, this felt like a good recovery swim. Would it be considered "recovery" or "junk yardage"? I still don't really understand the difference...
This could be considered recovery, or it could be something else depending on how you were swimming it.
You did just fine. I find that variety is a key to success. While it's good to do certain things again to test yourself, you shouldn't be repeating and repeating your same workouts day by day, week by week.
I go to the pool a lot with no workout in mind, and make it up as I go as well.
Garbage yards would be swimming without any purpose at all, kind of like some of my cooldowns. :)
This could be considered recovery, or it could be something else depending on how you were swimming it.
You did just fine. I find that variety is a key to success. While it's good to do certain things again to test yourself, you shouldn't be repeating and repeating your same workouts day by day, week by week.
I go to the pool a lot with no workout in mind, and make it up as I go as well.
Garbage yards would be swimming without any purpose at all, kind of like some of my cooldowns. :)
Thanks, James. So, I guess slow is ok, as long as I have focus/purpose for the set. And, my purpose, whenever I swim slow, is to at least to work on DPS; except during warm-up, where the purpose for the first 200 yards or so is to get the kinks out! :cane:
You are right; I do not have a recovery-only workout. So, Tall Paul, Master Set Maker :D, what recovery sets would you recommend for my level (see previous posts for times, etc.)? If there are some workouts from your thread you feel would be appropriate, will you point me to the post #'s and I'll check them out?
Thanks!
:chug:
No real "secret" to recovery...our focus is to make sure people keep their heart rates below 120 and move their body in a variety of ways at low speed that they rarely do during a normal workout. For example using a broad range of drills (we tend to take :30 rest on most things), "social" kicks, for our sprinters some "longer" hypoxic swims (400-600 range)...and one final thing, although we set aside Thursdays for this type of work I pull a swimmer from a regular workout pretty frequently who I feel is getting to broken down and have them either take the day off or change to a recovery day.
A good article on recovery...masters are quite a different "animal" then age group/college level swimmers that you can go more into the depth of this approach but even applying some of the basics can have a lot of impact:
www.swimmingcoach.org/.../JL10102002.asp
A good article on recovery...masters are quite a different "animal" then age group/college level swimmers that you can go more into the depth of this approach but even applying some of the basics can have a lot of impact:
www.swimmingcoach.org/.../JL10102002.asp
Thanks for the article, Paul, very interesting.
You mention masters swimmers are different than age group or college swimmers, so what would you recommend for masters swimmers who train with an age group team?
You mention masters swimmers are different than age group or college swimmers, so what would you recommend for masters swimmers who train with an age group team?
Try to keep up and don't have a heart attack! :bolt:
And getting DQ'd left and right for it!! Lots of officials unaware of the rule on this and lots of swimmers unable to execute it correctly!
!
Paul,why are they being DQd?I haven't seen a video,but I thought the short pull was just doing a regular BR pull on the pullout instead of the full pulldown.Is the issue where to put the dolphin kick? I can see that could be a problem if you try the early dolphin kick,which can easily lead to a DQ in Masters with either the pulldown or short pull.What am I missing?
I'm not exactly sure what this "short pullout" entails, but I would guess the DQs must be a result of not alternating a pull and a kick. If you omit the (breaststroke) kick on your pullout you better be taking it on the surface before you start another pull.
From the Rule Book:
Throughout the race the stroke cycle must be one arm stroke and one leg kick in that order.
Wise Tall Paul has the most awesome posts in this thread!!!! True words of wisdom!!!!
I agree 100%!
And Knelson makes a very good point - you can get very efficient at less-than-max speed and hold for extended sets and yardage, but the next gear, Elusive Speed, takes a different aproach to reach and train. I find that targeting 2 sprint sets a week, and building the week around that, with recovery off days, is the only way I have been able to tap into going true race-pace in a workout. It is so tempting to want to relive the glory the next day (Was I really that fast? Let me see! Just oooonnne more sprint today!) But no, it is better to stick to "The Plan" and make sure in 2 to 3 days, I am absolutely going to hit it again, and not just have a Good Effort Day. And in weeks where you know life will get "in the way", you have to accomodate your training for that, too, such as this past week between xmas and new years. I highly recommend everyone read the article Wise Paul posted earlier. The point is, everyone is different. For me, it's 2x per week. And I am finding I probably also need to take 2 days completely off per week. It really compresses the amount of workouts I do a week! (PS I will have a blog post on this point today!)
Thanks for the article, Paul, very interesting.
You mention masters swimmers are different than age group or college swimmers, so what would you recommend for masters swimmers who train with an age group team?
Kirk, we have several of our masters swimmers that opt to train with our senior kids and my advice to them is to simply be VERY aware of their bodies. Sounds simple but tell me how many times you have gotten out of a workout after only a few minutes, gone to a lane with slower intervals and just kicked or simply slept in? :)
Bottom line for me is to not try and see how "much" you can do but how "fast" you can do it....and sadly starting around 40 every one of those fast (or substitute "strength" on lifting days) days seems to take 2, 3 or 4 days of recovery!!
I agree it's not as simple as it sounds. There's a natural tendency to compare yourself to others in the pool even if they are less than half your age. When I'm swimming poorly or get out early I feel like a wuss. I need to accept the fact that I need to do what's best for me.
Bottom line for me is to not try and see how "much" you can do but how "fast" you can do it
I'm slowly realizing this. Right now I can maintain a decent pace for a long time, but when it comes time to swim fast I have trouble finding that next gear.
