Swimming after liftin'

:whiteflag::help: So, I am more confused as ever as to which is the best training program for me. In your opinion, what would be the best way to strengthen my breaststroke kick- without putting too much stress on the knees. Given my history of repetitive stress injuries and surgeries, I do NOT want to go there... As for my breaststroke pull, I have adopted the same pull as King Frog for the same reason: Dr. G advised minimizing the outward scull motion, because it wasn't beneficial for either of us. (We had both had Dr. G's power testing, at different times.) I also choose a narrow pull to reduce the risk of injury to my shoulders, as I have already had surgery for thoracic outlet syndrome (non-swimming related injury) on my left shoulder and hope to avoid surgery on the right shoulder. So, given those issues, what would your advice be for strengthening the pull part of my breaststroke? Thanks, 'Swim, for contributing to this thread with some great info. This is a really good forum thread for met to ponder! Is Dr. G Genadijus Solokavas? I defer to his wisdom + doctors when it comes to biomechanics/injuries. Listen to your PT or whomever you went to for your diagnosis. First regarding "pull"... coachsci.sdsu.edu/.../ak160200.htm With a narrow pull, I think you might want to consider doing a "butterfly style" catch and pull. Much like Agnes Kovacs here. (Don't emulate Soni's wide outsweep/mini circle recovery. Kitajima also has a semi-fly catch/pull, but he does a big outsweep that might bother you.) The thing about a narrower arm motion is that it has the potential to be less "smooth" compared to a wide motion (momentum, think about making a turn in a small alley versus a wide field, in this case the shift from forward recovery to a catch) so it is very important that you go to the "catch" phase as soon as you start outsweeping (a wide outsweep person can afford to wait a little.) Doing this will require the flexibility to internally rotate the shoulders (put your arms in front of you, level with your shoulders- then try to pop your elbows up! This puts your hand in the catch phase. This is what internal rotation is.) Unfortunately excessive internal rotation can also mess up your shoulder. Check out www.swimmingscience.net/.../shoulder-internal-rotation-for-swimmers.html www.swimmingscience.net/.../shoulder-internal-rotation-for-swimmers_21.html Alternatively, don't think of your arms as your main source of propulsion, and work on the timing between your arms and legs. A smooth stroke with slightly less powerful limbs has an excellent chance of beating a choppy accel/deccelerating stroke of a really muscular opponent. you can do a LOT if you go down the road of trying to really learn the "wave" breaststroke. Checkout breaststroke.info for the Kurt Grote series. Regarding your legs... I'm hoping breastroker will wander over here and put in his two cents, he has much more experience! But whether someone has a history of knee pain or not, I still don't see much purpose in loading the knees further, they are not designed to deal with torque (rotational) forces and the water already provides plenty of resistance for them. Strengthen the recovery motion (bringing heels towards buttocks) and increase the flexibility of your hip flexors (thighs = quads/iliopsoas) via hip flexor stretches. (see link below) My current swimming project involves strengthening the posterior chain (basically the muscles on the back half of your body). I'm working from this piece, minus the serious loads. It doesn't seem to have improved the power of my kick (yet, I don't have power testing) but I am having a much easier time maintaining an open hip angle (angle between torso and thighs) during my full stroke, which equals a more streamlined body which = more speed :) www.t-nation.com/.../dispelling_the_glute_myth

:whiteflag::help: So, I am more confused as ever as to which is the best training program for me. In your opinion, what would be the best way to strengthen my breaststroke kick- without putting too much stress on the knees. Given my history of repetitive stress injuries and surgeries, I do NOT want to go there... As for my breaststroke pull, I have adopted the same pull as King Frog for the same reason: Dr. G advised minimizing the outward scull motion, because it wasn't beneficial for either of us. (We had both had Dr. G's power testing, at different times.) I also choose a narrow pull to reduce the risk of injury to my shoulders, as I have already had surgery for thoracic outlet syndrome (non-swimming related injury) on my left shoulder and hope to avoid surgery on the right shoulder. So, given those issues, what would your advice be for strengthening the pull part of my breaststroke? Thanks, 'Swim, for contributing to this thread with some great info. This is a really good forum thread for met to ponder! Is Dr. G Genadijus Solokavas? I defer to his wisdom + doctors when it comes to biomechanics/injuries. Listen to your PT or whomever you went to for your diagnosis. First regarding "pull"... coachsci.sdsu.edu/.../ak160200.htm With a narrow pull, I think you might want to consider doing a "butterfly style" catch and pull. Much like Agnes Kovacs here. (Don't emulate Soni's wide outsweep/mini circle recovery. Kitajima also has a semi-fly catch/pull, but he does a big outsweep that might bother you.) The thing about a narrower arm motion is that it has the potential to be less "smooth" compared to a wide motion (momentum, think about making a turn in a small alley versus a wide field, in this case the shift from forward recovery to a catch) so it is very important that you go to the "catch" phase as soon as you start outsweeping (a wide outsweep person can afford to wait a little.) Doing this will require the flexibility to internally rotate the shoulders (put your arms in front of you, level with your shoulders- then try to pop your elbows up! This puts your hand in the catch phase. This is what internal rotation is.) Unfortunately excessive internal rotation can also mess up your shoulder. Check out www.swimmingscience.net/.../shoulder-internal-rotation-for-swimmers.html www.swimmingscience.net/.../shoulder-internal-rotation-for-swimmers_21.html Alternatively, don't think of your arms as your main source of propulsion, and work on the timing between your arms and legs. A smooth stroke with slightly less powerful limbs has an excellent chance of beating a choppy accel/deccelerating stroke of a really muscular opponent. you can do a LOT if you go down the road of trying to really learn the "wave" breaststroke. Checkout breaststroke.info for the Kurt Grote series. Regarding your legs... I'm hoping breastroker will wander over here and put in his two cents, he has much more experience! But whether someone has a history of knee pain or not, I still don't see much purpose in loading the knees further, they are not designed to deal with torque (rotational) forces and the water already provides plenty of resistance for them. Strengthen the recovery motion (bringing heels towards buttocks) and increase the flexibility of your hip flexors (thighs = quads/iliopsoas) via hip flexor stretches. (see link below) My current swimming project involves strengthening the posterior chain (basically the muscles on the back half of your body). I'm working from this piece, minus the serious loads. It doesn't seem to have improved the power of my kick (yet, I don't have power testing) but I am having a much easier time maintaining an open hip angle (angle between torso and thighs) during my full stroke, which equals a more streamlined body which = more speed :) www.t-nation.com/.../dispelling_the_glute_myth