Do distance swimmers spend less time w/kicking workouts

Here is a strong kick on the last 50 from a distance swimmer. Maybe he does not 6 beat kick during the race, but he knows how at the end, which leads me to believe it is part of his training. Sun Yang sets World Record in 1500m Free - from Universal Sports - YouTube

Remember that the target audience of the video includes those for whom "competition" might have a negative connotation. Maybe that comes from their age group or college days, or maybe it's fear of the unknown. Masters meets are different, but you probably have to see one to really understand that it's very low-key, the oldest swimmers get the biggest cheers, and almost everyone is just having fun. So to me, downplaying "competition" in the video was the right call. I swam in 2 meets this year and 1 meet last year. I'm nowhere near a top 10 swimmer, and even something like a national qualifying time is a distance away for me. My goal for meets is simply to see if/how I'm improving--or not--and if/how I want to continue my training. I'll race in whatever makes the most sense according to the meet schedule; usually the max# of events, while getting at least a little rest, ranging from 50s to 1500, nearly any free or ***. But I mostly consider myself a distance swimmer. Comparatively, I train swimming 4-6 hours/week (-v- maybe 10 hours/year at a meet), and when people ask me about masters swimming, I don't even really consider meets. As for this kicking thread... I actually swim with Paul's group. I'll tolerate some of this kicking stuff, when it makes sense for me, and go along with it. However, as a marathon runner, I quite liberally adjust my sets so I'm not overworking my legs when the energy is needed at another time (or when I'm not quite recovered from a training run). I'll confer with my lanemates and/or move to another area so I'm not in the way. Not sure where this whole kicking bootcamp idea came from, but as I'm running a marathon in 9 days, I've participated only slightly. I think it was Wednesday when I completely blew off much of what was assigned, but I stayed out of the way of those who didn't (my blog has what was assigned, and what I did).

I always think of kick improvement as the triple bang (or more!). You get faster by better kick alone. Then your body is ever so slightly better aligned, so you have less resistance. Then, because you are better aligned and have less resistance, you can more fully activate your arms and then your arms are actually "stronger" without lifting any more weight or doing more yardarge! Last, with a better kick & core, you use K&C to kick, balance, and breath rather than your arms, at least incrementally more, so that also frees up your arms to do more of just one thing - pulling you through the water rather than balance & breathing. It's like getting stronger arms just by improving your kick! My (perhaps) antiquated view of the importance of the kick in freestyle speed agrees with Michelle's statement. The kick doesn't provide much in the way of propulsion, but is very important in keeping the body balanced & aligned so the upper body can be as efficient as possible in providing propulsive force. My conclusion would be that kick sets would then be tailored to the sprint/distance swimmer the same way swimming/pulling/drill sets are. So the sprint vs. distance issue would be more about intensity & rest than it would be amount of time. Just my 2 cents (as a confirmed sprinter who managed TT in all 6 freestyles this year) ...

You cannot train for distance and sprint in the same season. Laura's feat is because she is a BA, not because she trained for the 50 and 1500 (which isn't possible) I don't agree. Just have to train right...... I believe what lefty probably means is that it is not possible to simultaneously fully optimize (ie, reach max potential in) both 50 and 1500, not that a talented swimmer can't have very respectable times in both. I agree with him.

I also think that high-intensity kick sets can have a lot more "bang for the buck" than another swim set precisely because most masters don't do enough of them. Before doing yet another set of 10 x 100 on 1:20 (or whatever), think about doing a hard kick set instead. If you are always doing the same thing in training, your improvement will be incremental at best. I'm an old Distance person, who now does mid-D because I just don't enjoy the 1500 anymore. But I remember being told that people could tell I was a natural D swimmer because of my stupid 2-beat kick. Great. I see so many good D swimmers 6-beat power kick their way through a 1500 that a 2-beat kick has got to be totally "last year"! The group I train with (a USAS team) does a minimum of 1000 kick each AM, usually 100's on the 2:00 - which I can barely make after about 4. I like to put on my zoomers because a) I keep the interval easier, and b) believe it or not, for some reason I actually work harder (on my flutter kick) with them on! Today our 2nd kick set was 8 x 100 on 2:00 - and I put on my zoomers for the last four. Question to you guys, was this a mistake? Should I leave them off? Or go ahead with this because I'm working harder on my kicking? And BTW - for those of us who have achy joints (RA) - I find that kicking with a kickboard does NOT help my shoulders one bit - it actually makes things worse for my shoulders and my neck. So if my shoulders hurt, I either do ***, or put on my zoomers. (Luckily that doesn't happen too much!)

Let's face it. Most superb sprint freestylers could easily make Top Ten in the 1650 or 1500. They just choose not to. There are some great distance swimmers in USMS, but there are a lot more who make top ten in the distance events because they're willing to actually swim the events. Not saying these folks aren't deserving--I consider myself one of them!

The group I train with (a USAS team) does a minimum of 1000 kick each AM, usually 100's on the 2:00 - which I can barely make after about 4. I like to put on my zoomers because a) I keep the interval easier, and b) believe it or not, for some reason I actually work harder (on my flutter kick) with them on! Today our 2nd kick set was 8 x 100 on 2:00 - and I put on my zoomers for the last four. Question to you guys, was this a mistake? Should I leave them off? Or go ahead with this because I'm working harder on my kicking? And BTW - for those of us who have achy joints (RA) - I find that kicking with a kickboard does NOT help my shoulders one bit - it actually makes things worse for my shoulders and my neck. So if my shoulders hurt, I either do ***, or put on my zoomers. (Luckily that doesn't happen too much!) Yes, use your fins if you're really working the set. Fin work transfers if you're doing it at high intensity. Don't use a kickboard if it bothers your shoulders. I rarely do, only if I feel like breathing more. I agree with everything Clydesdale and Chris have said. But it's really about what X swimmer wants out of training. If you really want to improve and swim faster, then kicking is one place to start. But it won't happen overnight; it's a long term overhaul.

And BTW - for those of us who have achy joints (RA) - I find that kicking with a kickboard does NOT help my shoulders one bit - it actually makes things worse for my shoulders and my neck. Very true. There's also a school of thought that kicking with a kickboard is not as beneficial as without because your body position with a board is not similar to your body position while swimming. I do both, but I do think, for flutter kick, you're better off kicking without a board, arms at your side and practice core rotation with your head in your swimming position -- face down, kick X kicks on your right side, rotate to left side while keeping kick going strong, kick X kicks on your left side, breathe while on your side, lather, rinse, repeat.

Question to you guys, was this a mistake? Should I leave them off? Or go ahead with this because I'm working harder on my kicking? What do you think? Are you starting to kick faster without fins or not? I'd say if your kick times are not improving then maybe the Zoomers aren't helping.

There are some great distance swimmers in USMS, but there are a lot more who make top ten in the distance events because they're willing to actually swim the events. :applaud: That's the only way I can make TT! And ITA, I'm sure a lot of sprinters could swim a TT time in the longer events, but I'm also glad they don't:D