As a counterpoint to my personal data, though, it should be noted that, on average I swim about 25% of the weekly volume now versus what I did when I was a teenager and in college. I'm pretty sure that, if I could raise my training to 75% of where I used to be, with some smarter addition of strength work and race pace, my distance times could be closer (on a percentage basis) to my best than my shorter distance times. I just don't have the time to do that ... but I imagine Janet's making that kind of time in her quest.
Of course you'd have to take greater care with your yardage as well, right? The key is the "smarter" part. I'm sure your 40-something body is not going to be as resilient as your 20-something body was. I think one of the things that makes it possible for Dara to tackle this problem is that she can afford to devote essentially her entire professional life to the effort, including all the ancillary stuff: diet, dry land, stretching, etc, etc, etc. I suspect Janet probably has similar freedom to make the attempt. (Diana Nyad as well with her recent Cuba-to-Florida attempt.)
Just chipping in my $0.02 from the peanut gallery.
It is a shot from her 1500 race.
The photographer messaged me about that exact thing - how high she rides in the water and her head position on her breath.
He said she looked almost like a water polo player :)
She was wicked fast with that stroke before and looks like she is sticking with it.
You're so right: 1988 Olympic Women's 800m Freestyle final - Janet Evans - YouTube
But wouldn't you think with all the changes since 1988 in freestyle technique, she might be faster with better body alignment? But what do I know, for sure. She's amazing.
Former Member
According to USA Swimming's list of OT Qualifiers (06/24/11)
Women
50 free 73 qualifiers
100 76
200 83
400 93
800 48
Men
50 free 90 qualifiers
100 86
200 83
400 77
1500 54
By Age?
Former Member
Kirk may be right in that there's a huge field in the distance events at the moment. And some of them will only be getting faster in the coming season.
The results from the 2011 Conoco Phillips meet show the average age between 18 and 19 years old. Between the A and B finals there's at least 10 girls under the 4:10 zone...and 10 more under 4:14 or better.
I don't think anybody is claiming that Janet Evans is more fit than Dara simply because she can swim an impressive 400. I just cautioned against the assumption that Dara is more fit than Janet because she has already made OT cuts.
I simply made the point that the 400 free is a more painful event than the 50 free.
Really, fit has nothing to do with an impressive feat. Haven't we all seen swimmers who look far from fit do some pretty impressive times and set impressive records?
To be at OT level in any event certainly takes tremendous amounts of work. I still think training for middle distance takes more time than training for sprints whether in the water or on the land. Maybe somebody can do a comparison of Phelps' training versus that of a 50 freestyler. Sorry, I don't believe the combined hours of dryland and pool work of a sprinter is going to come near to what a middle distance swimmer does with dryland and pool work. To me, more work means it is harder.
If we are talking about how fit somebody looks, well, I think Janet looks quite fit. www.nbc.com/.../janet_evans.shtml
In a vote, my male friends picked Janet's body type over Dara's. Check out the above links.
Re: Dara vs. Janet, I think a cage match would settle this argument.
If you simply equate this "fitness" concept to OT cuts (i.e if you make OT cuts you are officially "fit"), Dara made cuts last month by almost a second in the 50 free. Janet has not made cuts yet. Thus, Dara is more fit than Janet.
Re: Dara vs. Janet, I think a cage match would settle this argument.
If you simply equate this "fitness" concept to OT cuts (i.e if you make OT cuts you are officially "fit"), Dara made cuts last month by almost a second in the 50 free. Janet has not made cuts yet. Thus, Dara is more fit than Janet.
Haha. That is pretty good, Speedo! Probably the best answer.
What about looking at the number of people over 30 that are within 4 seconds of the OT cut in the 400 free versus the number of people over 30 that have made the OT cut in the 50 free?
This is exactly my thought...
She spoke about being on track and again - ahead of schedule to hit certain times.
So maybe she is swimming this fast unrested and plans a USA Swimming meet later in the year.
Heck, the first time she swam a masters meet, no one was in the pool with her. She might as well have been doing a get out swim in workout.
I can't wait to see her race some USA Swimming girls who can give her a race!
Then we can talk about what she can and can't do in the pool these days.
(trying to have pictures show up; not working)
In the second picture her body alignment looks really weird; seems like it would create a lot of drag. Was that during her race?
Haha. That is pretty good, Speedo! Probably the best answer.
What about looking at the number of people over 30 that are within 4 seconds of the OT cut in the 400 free versus the number of people over 30 that have made the OT cut in the 50 free?I get what you are saying, and agree that it may be more difficult for folks over 30 to make the 400 cut. That said (and sticking to my ultra-simple definition of fitness), I'd rather be "fit" than fit "for my age." :)
Disagree. You have to be in outstanding shape to make it in the sprints. Haven't you read how much Dara trained? I know Wally Dicks trains(ed) a ton. Just because Evans may do more sheer yardage in the pool does not make it a more impressive feat or mean that she's in better shape. That's just anti-sprinter claptrap.
I really hopes she makes it though!
I would like to conduct a scientific experiment. I nominate Professors Stevenson and Sohlberg to oversee the data. I nominate PWolf to underwrite the idea by paying for all of the entry fees. I nominate Mr. Thornton to be the control group and The Fortress to be the experiment.
The experiment is to compare best times across a span of 30 years for any sprint event of the subject's choosing and then the 400 IM. We will divide the time delta by the best time to come up with a percentage. Presumably the best time will be from 30 years ago or this experiment won't work. For practical purposes we will exclude any swimsuit effects on the times. The Fortress has 9 months to achieve a 400 IM time and can either use this timeframe to come up with a new sprint time or may use a time from the past 2 years. My hypothesis is one can perform relatively better with age in the sprints vs distance.
BTW I have no idea why Mr. Thornton is in the control group but I'm sure he can come up with an appropriate justification. I nominated Wolfy to underwrite the experiment because he has missed enough meets this past year that by paying for these extra meets makes it a financial wash (although I'm not one to talk in this dept).
Just using some round numbers, a ten percent decline would be as follows:
50 free: 24.5 becomes vs 26.95
400 IM: 4:45.00 becomes 5:13.50
Wookie has volunteered to donate a pair of tractor pull tickets to an upcoming Monster Truck Rally for all of the participants in this experiment. And perhaps Dr. Williams (psychnw) can determine what is wrong with my brain for thinking of all of this in the first place.
