butterfly kick

You certainly have the right idea, Fly is all about the kick. It is more of a full body motion however, which can take some time to understand. Try these for improving your fly: From the USMS site: Teaching Masters to Master the Butterfly: West Side Fly Progression From Coach Emmett Hines (h2oustonswims.org): Slip-Slid'n' Away Vive le Papillon! Looks like you may not need to do all of what is suggested... but if you read those through, you will likely get some additional good ideas that will help you improve better towards your goal. Sometimes it can be helpful to slow down at first, and increase the amplitude of your stroke, to get the timing right... then work on speeding it up, and flattening it out. This can be a long process, but it seems you've been at it a while anyway. If you try this "slow down approach", try working a glide into your stroke. The "no-arm fly drill" suggestion looks really good for helping with this. Think "Forward"... not "Up"... while focusing on always keeping the hips as high as possible. Good flexibility helps on this... a lot. Occasionally when you practice, try letting the legs kind of drag behind you, while still giving kicks. The REAL power of the kick comes from the core, not the legs. One really pleasing side effect of this is a kick a** set of abs. ;) You will know when you hit the sweet spot... and when you do, you will want more. There is a remarkable collection of articles at www.svl.ch/svlimmat_ratind.html ... you may find something useful there as well. There are some excellent comments, suggestions, and links in this thread! Special thanks to knelson for the Mary T. Meagher vid link... what a beautiful example. She really drives forward with such graceful power. Have Fun! :)

This may not be a solution to your problem but my experience may be relevant to others.... and something to try Earlier this year my fly just seemed to be going backwards - more effort needed, less speed , hauling myself out of the water etc etc and I could not pinpoint what was wrong. A coach suggested I put on my fins ( which didnt seem to help at this time) and kick keeping my knees as straight as possible - it felt completely bizarre but I went like a rocket ! It turned out I had subconsciously weakened my kick by bending my knees more than before - I am now kicking with straighter legs and have a much better position in the water again :bliss:

I agree. Plus, one sure thing about swimming, is that you don't have shortcuts in this sport. However, I felt like I hit paydirt when I started stretching my hands before I pull. I now try to reach farther with my palms before I pull and as a result, I streamline better and my kick feels a lot stronger. Stretching out also helps keeping your knees straight(er) like Fenella suggested. I wonder if I'm the only one who does that? I was told recently that I needed to reach farther forward with my arms. I believe that the suggestion was that I incorporate a short glide. Now I have to figure out how to do that with a reasonable turnover rate. I also don't think about my kick too much, but I do try to think about undulation.

I think this is true. The more you try to consciously use your legs to kick fly, the less effective it is. Fly kick seems to come from the stomach and the hips. The legs are just big long fins that flop around. I agree. Plus, one sure thing about swimming, is that you don't have shortcuts in this sport. However, I felt like I hit paydirt when I started stretching my hands before I pull. I now try to reach farther with my palms before I pull and as a result, I streamline better and my kick feels a lot stronger. Stretching out also helps keeping your knees straight(er) like Fenella suggested. I wonder if I'm the only one who does that?

I'd be interested to know her stroke counts versus the rest of the field. I've counted some swimmers' strokes before who appeared to have incredible DPS and usually they weren't markedly different from other swimmers. Maybe one or two strokes better per 25. Which is good, of course, but not phenomenal.

This isn't a video of the WC swim but here is some practice footage of her swimming all strokes ‪DreamDraft.com - Ida Marko-Varga - The Chosen One‬‏ - YouTube Thanks for that. I'm not seeing much of a glide in her fly, though, are you? (By the way, it strikes me that although it seems like we've gotten off topic, we really haven't. I think fly is somewhat "holistic" -- to kick right, you have to do most of the rest of the stroke right).

... I wonder if I'm the only one who does that? Nope... based on my experience, this is a spot-on description. I find that the longer I make myself in the water, the easier it is to do fly. :)

This may be moving towards the Butterfly Lane thread but on this glide point - did anyone else see Ida Marko- Varga of Sweden in the womens 200m semi? She had the longest glide I have ever seen with enough time for a coffee and cigarette between each stroke Quite extraordinary. If someone can glide that much and reach the semis then perhaps I can glide and survive a 200 .................... Love the description! I did my 1st 200 fly in 8 years last month on a glide-based approach. I was very slow, but I finished it legally also noting that my fly-arm muscles are not as strong as they used to be so I'm working on that now. Another vote for using fins though - it really highlighted to me that my timing was a little off and I could feel the deceleration in stroke much more than without them. You've got to keep that forward momentum.

This may be moving towards the Butterfly Lane thread but on this glide point - did anyone else see Ida Marko- Varga of Sweden in the womens 200m semi? She had the longest glide I have ever seen with enough time for a coffee and cigarette between each stroke Quite extraordinary. If someone can glide that much and reach the semis then perhaps I can glide and survive a 200 ....................

This may be moving towards the Butterfly Lane thread but on this glide point - did anyone else see Ida Marko- Varga of Sweden in the womens 200m semi? She had the longest glide I have ever seen with enough time for a coffee and cigarette between each stroke Quite extraordinary. If someone can glide that much and reach the semis then perhaps I can glide and survive a 200 .................... Does anyone have a video?