Beginning in 2009, club scoring awards at Nationals have been divided into two separate categories: Regional and Local. A formal description of the two club categories is below (104.5.6B & from page 35-36 of the 2012 USMS Rule Book):
(1)Regional - For competition at national championship meets, a Regional Club consists of a club made up of those swimmers who represent a club at nationals, but at competitions within their LMSC, they compete for an entity or subgroup (such as a workout group) that is different than the one they compete with at nationals.
(2) Local - For competition at national championship meets, a Local Club consists of a club that does not qualify as a Regional Club.
Based on these definitions, the following scoring categories will be in place for 2012 Nationals:
Regional Clubs:
AFAM
AKMS
ARIZ
CMS
FACT
GAJA
HIMA
HMS
IAMA
IM
MICH
MM
NCMS
NEM
NIAG
NMMS
OREG
PNA
SKY
SMS
SWOM
UTAH
WMAC
WMSC
Local Clubs: all other registered USMS clubs.
Please note clubs may contest their designation or the designation of another club by filing an appeal with the chair of the Championship Committee (Jeff Roddin, Championship@usms.org) at least 45 days prior to the national championship meet (those deadlines would be March 12 for Greensboro and May 21 for Omaha).
Jeff Roddin
Championship Committee Chair
For the purpose of this application, I don't see a difference between "club" and "team." As stated by you and others, there is no category that represents a single team or club that competes as a discreet entity. Where do we fit in?
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www.clubassistant.com/.../2011_12_Wet.pdf
Is team/club pride really so fragile?
I guess if one has pride in his life's work, it is important to be on even footing. We have a very cohesive, supportive unit, as well as a talented coach. It is not a question of being fragile, but one of fairness.
But the rules are the rules. As it is currently, a mega-team can exist in either category which leaves little opportunity for singular club/teams to compete for overall titles.
I guess if one has pride in his life's work, it is important to be on even footing. We have a very cohesive, supportive unit, as well as a talented coach. It is not a question of being fragile, but one of fairness.
But the rules are the rules. As it is currently, a mega-team can exist in either category which leaves little opportunity for singular club/teams to compete for overall titles.
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia,' but only slightly less well known is this: 'Never worry about the score at a Masters swim meet.'
If it's not important, then why do we score teams at all? If you mean it's a forbidden subject, there would be a reason for that.
As I see it, based on some of the comments, some people like it just the way it is and don't like anyone rocking the boat or asking questions. I'm sure it took a lot of work to get to the current definitions, and those who participated feel a sense of ownership. I get that.
However, unless you're a stand alone club, you wouldn't understand the frustration. I think when you have a dynamic coach, work out with the same people every day, socialize with them, and support one another on a daily basis, you do forge a strong "team" bond that probably doesn't exist in most conglomerate groups. As competitors, we like to win, or at least have a fair shot at winning. Is that so wrong?
I guess if one has pride in his life's work, it is important to be on even footing.
There is no such thing as equal footing. For example you can have regional clubs in states that have no LCM pools at all and/or low population densities, and local clubs in states where it is not uncommon for a HS to have two long course pools.
I'm sure it took a lot of work to get to the current definitions, and those who participated feel a sense of ownership. I get that.
However, unless you're a stand alone club, you wouldn't understand the frustration. I think when you have a dynamic coach, work out with the same people every day, socialize with them, and support one another on a daily basis, you do forge a strong "team" bond that probably doesn't exist in most conglomerate groups. As competitors, we like to win, or at least have a fair shot at winning. Is that so wrong?
No, I seriously doubt I would ever understand the frustration you describe no matter what club I am on, bc the score has no impact on my bond with other swimmers.
I can only speak for myself, but it is not any sense of ownership of the current rules that makes me reluctant to address the issue, but simply a desire to avoid re-fighting a battle that wasnt worth the effort the first (and second) time around. There will never be a rule that satisfies everyone. Certainly my own preferred solution of abolishing both workout groups AND scoring categories would probably annoy all parties equally, but it has the virtue of satisfying the KISS principle.
The local club is always going to have an advantage.I used to think that was unfair and thought there should be a way to weigh distance traveled into the equation.Now I think it is fine.Get as many local people to come as possible.Get as many new people into meets as you can.Whatever gets people involved is good.
It seems that the lines are fuzzy in determining who is a regional team and who is a club. How do the state of Nebraska and people from at least 2 states who don't know one another qualify as local teams?
I'm guessing that nobody protested by the deadline, and somehow they technically met the definition. The real club teams don't have a chance while competing with mega-teams. I thought that was why we went to the regional vs. local club concept. I hope this is revisited soon.
There were no protested clubs for 2012 (before or after the deadline). The Nebraska club was indeed evaluated prior to releasing the list of Regional Clubs for 2012 so it wouldn't really have mattered if it got protested or not since they met the definition of a local club.
The Championship Committee evaluates club status strictly based on the USMS Rulebook (specific code cited in the original post).
Jeff Roddin
USMS Championship Committee
