Regional vs Local Club Categories (2012)

I can understand you registering with a UNC team, but I don't understand why you would join a large regional club. Why isn't there a UNC Alumni team?

I can understand you registering with a UNC team, but I don't understand why you would join a large regional club. Why isn't there a UNC Alumni team? Actually I am joining to swim with high school teammates; any relays with UNC alums is a bonus. Looks to me that in NC everything is a workout group, except NC Masters (and UNAT of course). "The structure of our organization is one big parent club, North Carolina Masters Swimming (NCMS) with multiple workout groups" You can start an independent club, I think (though there aren't any right now) but what's the fun in that? Lots of fast NC men & women to have relays with.

Oh, woe: my first time competing for an evil regional club. The guilt...it's overwhelming at times...

Must be the fact that you have betrayed your beloved VMST. I prefer to think of it as loyalty to my former teammates in NC. Yeah, that's the ticket. (Of course, one can argue that VMST is a "local club" in name only, but let's not go there.)

Beginning in 2009, club scoring awards at Nationals have been divided into two separate categories: Regional and Local. A formal description of the two club categories is below (104.5.6B & from page 35-36 of the 2012 USMS Rule Book): (1)Regional - For competition at national championship meets, a Regional Club consists of a club made up of those swimmers who represent a club at nationals, but at competitions within their LMSC, they compete for an entity or subgroup (such as a workout group) that is different than the one they compete with at nationals. (2) Local - For competition at national championship meets, a Local Club consists of a club that does not qualify as a Regional Club. Based on these definitions, the following scoring categories will be in place for 2012 Nationals: Regional Clubs: AFAM AKMS ARIZ CMS FACT GAJA HIMA HMS IAMA IM MICH MM NCMS NEM NIAG NMMS OREG PNA SKY SMS SWOM UTAH WMAC WMSC Local Clubs: all other registered USMS clubs. Please note clubs may contest their designation or the designation of another club by filing an appeal with the chair of the Championship Committee (Jeff Roddin, Championship@usms.org) at least 45 days prior to the national championship meet (those deadlines would be March 12 for Greensboro and May 21 for Omaha). Jeff Roddin Championship Committee Chair Just a reminder that the deadline to contest club designations for 2012 Summer Nationals is today.

It seems that the lines are fuzzy in determining who is a regional team and who is a club. How do the state of Nebraska and people from at least 2 states who don't know one another qualify as local teams? I'm guessing that nobody protested by the deadline, and somehow they technically met the definition. The real club teams don't have a chance while competing with mega-teams. I thought that was why we went to the regional vs. local club concept. I hope this is revisited soon.

It seems that the lines are fuzzy in determining who is a regional team and who is a club. How do the state of Nebraska and people from at least 2 states who don't know one another qualify as local teams? I'm guessing that nobody protested by the deadline, and somehow they technically met the definition. The real club teams don't have a chance while competing with mega-teams. I thought that was why we went to the regional vs. local club concept. I hope this is revisited soon. God, I sure hope not. It always wastes a lot of time and ultimately just ends up sounding like sour grapes. The concept doesn't seem very fuzzy: "A Regional Club consists of a club made up of those swimmers who represent a club at nationals, but at competitions within their LMSC, they compete for an entity or subgroup (such as a workout group) that is different." One can, of course, disagree about the appropriateness of the definition. Any definition is going to be problematic both conceptually and practically. The host club, whether regional or local, has a major advantage at nationals bc of travel. The "mythical national championship" (taken from Top 10 rankings) is a little less biased by that factor, though it still exists.

I am not educated on the history of the definitions, but they seem to defy good sense. A club is a club. We pay dues to the same entity, our coaches get paid by the same entity. We may work out at different sites, but we are essentially a team. This is not sour grapes...just common sense. An LMSC is probably not a team, and therein lies the problem. That's the gray area. I know people in the know like Chris want to drop this. But as a real team swimmer with a dedicated coach who has pride in his life's work, it is disappointing to continually see his efforts to motivate a real team diminished by a silly definition. Bottom line...a conglomerate of many unrelated workout groups does not constitute a local team.

I am not educated on the history of the definitions, but they seem to defy good sense. A club is a club. We pay dues to the same entity, our coaches get paid by the same entity. We may work out at different sites, but we are essentially a team. This is not sour grapes...just common sense. An LMSC is probably not a team, and therein lies the problem. That's the gray area. I know people in the know like Chris want to drop this. But as a real team swimmer with a dedicated coach who has pride in his life's work, it is disappointing to continually see his efforts to motivate a real team diminished by a silly definition. Bottom line...a conglomerate of many unrelated workout groups does not constitute a local team. Clubs and teams are not the same thing. You seem to be using the two words interchangeably. Don't do that.

For the purpose of this application, I don't see a difference between "club" and "team." As stated by you and others, there is no category that represents a single team or club that competes as a discreet entity. Where do we fit in?