I have been thinking about an issue Jeff Commings brought up after the SCY Nationals. Jeff pointed out that he might have gone faster if he had been seeded by time rather than by age. I though the same thing as I watched others, including Dennis Baker, Gary Marshall, Rich Abraham, and others decimate their age group competition. How cool would it have been to see heats of the best of the best go head to head? And the competition would likely lead to faster times, at least for those swimmers who like to be pushed as opposed to swimming in clear water.
But for most of us mid-pack folks, it's a whole lot more exciting racing against our competition than a random assortment of folks who happened to have the same seed time. And often those seed times are wildly inaccurate anyway.
I have a couple of thoughts, neither of which are probably workable, but which might be food for thought. One method might involve culling out the top 24 (or some other number) men and top 24 women seeds from each event and swimming them in separate heats. To prevent gaming the seeds, the race staff would compare seeds to actual times within the past year. The remaining swimmers would swim seeded by age. This would be extra work for the race committee, but probably would not increase the length of the meet a whole bunch, if at all, because these folks would be swimming anyway.
Another suggestion might be a prelim/final format, with the top 24 times from each event swimming it again later. There are rest issues and length of meet issues with this one, but how fun would that be? The rock stars would have to figure out just how hard to go in their age group heat to advance, and the finals would be an all-out blast.
Just thinking out loud . . .
I REALLY don't like the idea. World Masters Games in Edmonton was run that way. I was swimming against people I had never met,many of whom were no where near their seed times,some faster some slower. My main competition was in different heats.And there was situations like my friend Dave Radcliff swimming in an outside lane against 30 year olds and setting a World Record in the 70-74 age group.One could speculate that this helped pace him,but he finished 3rd in his heat with again faster seeds swimming slower and the top 2 guys going way under their seed time. The idea may have some validity for the lower age groups,but the fast older swimmers may be in outside lanes swimming with much younger swimmers who don't have as much experience and are likely to be less accurate with their seed times. Also I like to know if I won,I won,If I finished second I finished second,etc.
At Federal Way, I noticed lots of people going way faster or way slower than their seed times in races. I'm sure that still threw off competitors, so Allen, that argument doesn't compel me to agree with your argument for seeding by age group. If you're seeded seventh in your age group in an event, having the outside lane, and the top six guys all swim way faster than their seed times, it's still going to throw you off. And if your "main competition" was in another heat, he probably wasn't going to be your competition, if his seed time was faster than yours (assuming he swam a time close to his seed).
As for David Radcliffe setting the world record: Do you think he would have done it racing against others in his age group? I don't know the results, but I bet the second place time in his age group did not come close to his. Thus, David would have been racing the clock, which does not historically produce faster results than man-to-man racing. Being in a heat with people of equal times pushed him harder, and he broke the record. He might have broken it racing alone, but I bet he wouldn't have gone as fast.
For those concerned about knowing their place in a particular age group, that's what the printed results are for. If you can't wait, find the heat sheet, circle the names of your competition in heats other than yours and look for them.
Using David as an example, I think seeding by age benefits every age group.
I REALLY don't like the idea. World Masters Games in Edmonton was run that way. I was swimming against people I had never met,many of whom were no where near their seed times,some faster some slower. My main competition was in different heats.And there was situations like my friend Dave Radcliff swimming in an outside lane against 30 year olds and setting a World Record in the 70-74 age group.One could speculate that this helped pace him,but he finished 3rd in his heat with again faster seeds swimming slower and the top 2 guys going way under their seed time. The idea may have some validity for the lower age groups,but the fast older swimmers may be in outside lanes swimming with much younger swimmers who don't have as much experience and are likely to be less accurate with their seed times. Also I like to know if I won,I won,If I finished second I finished second,etc.
At Federal Way, I noticed lots of people going way faster or way slower than their seed times in races. I'm sure that still threw off competitors, so Allen, that argument doesn't compel me to agree with your argument for seeding by age group. If you're seeded seventh in your age group in an event, having the outside lane, and the top six guys all swim way faster than their seed times, it's still going to throw you off. And if your "main competition" was in another heat, he probably wasn't going to be your competition, if his seed time was faster than yours (assuming he swam a time close to his seed).
As for David Radcliffe setting the world record: Do you think he would have done it racing against others in his age group? I don't know the results, but I bet the second place time in his age group did not come close to his. Thus, David would have been racing the clock, which does not historically produce faster results than man-to-man racing. Being in a heat with people of equal times pushed him harder, and he broke the record. He might have broken it racing alone, but I bet he wouldn't have gone as fast.
For those concerned about knowing their place in a particular age group, that's what the printed results are for. If you can't wait, find the heat sheet, circle the names of your competition in heats other than yours and look for them.
Using David as an example, I think seeding by age benefits every age group.
