first of all, congrats to the meet directors and all the volunteers on a job well done. so organized and efficient!! very impressive. the only thing i wish someone could explain to me is why the usms champ. committee changed the team scoring from large, medium and small team to clumping everyone in the same category. seems extremely unfair to have what i call "real teams" competing against state mega teams. there is no possibility for "real teams" to ever come close to competing against them. if you are going to give team awards at the end of the meet, is there any way you can do it fairly? our team is extremely proud to have gotten as many team members as we did to go to natls. (most of them for the first time), but unfortunately they were very disillusioned (as was i) with the idea that we would be competing against state teams. as one of the coaches i didn't have an explanation. even though we were very proud of our 7th place finish in men's division, and our 12th place in combined, we were only one of a few "real teams" in the top ten. would appreciate responses. maybe even someone from the champ.committee could explain how they felt this scoring system would be more fair to the majority of swimmers. then i can pass it along to my teammates.. i don't want them to be so disillusioned that they lose interest in attending any future natls. thanks
LOL, I tried to figure out how to quote but I'm afraid I'll mess it up, so...
Meg, you said, "I don't want to speak for Paul, but for myself, I do not object to two divisions, as long as within those divisions we have S-M-L."
I still don't understand why you wouldn't support 2 divisions WITHOUT S/M/L. The downfalls of S/M/L team scoring have been outlines, and they seem like common sense to me. Can someone please try to convince me why S/M/L offers more advantages than problems? I would like to actually read specific comments - other than "it's the most simple" or "it's the best." And please, whoever decides to take this challenge, please keep in mind we are trying to encourage participation (among other goals). Thanks in advance!
Regaridng geographical limits, I agree there should be SOMETHING. I agree that a specific radius would not work for various reasons. But, I believe it was Leianne who mentioned that 90% (for example) of a team's registered members should live within the LMSC. I think that is completely appropriate.
As far as Team TYR. Their members can actually switch teams from 1 meet to another. I've always been confused as to how this happens, and what their USMS cards look like (maybe Julie Heather could answer?), but I know that one of their swimmers switched from Team TYR to SCAQ to TYR to SCAQ within 2 months of meets last year. How does that work?
Finally, I agree with Meg in that there needs to be some leeway for "reasonable" judgment calls in determining when a team should fall into 1 of the 2 categories. As was evidenced, there are so many kinds of teams and workout groups, we need to allow for someone to employ the "we know it when we see it" perspective, and let the team challenge the ruling if they don't like it.
But, I like like the guidelines you are all coming up with, as long as there's that element of freedom for whoever is making that determination. And also, and the end of the day, if Team TYR ends up being a Local/Club team, then like Barry Bonds, everyone will know how to read those final results.*
LOL, I tried to figure out how to quote but I'm afraid I'll mess it up, so...
Meg, you said, "I don't want to speak for Paul, but for myself, I do not object to two divisions, as long as within those divisions we have S-M-L."
I still don't understand why you wouldn't support 2 divisions WITHOUT S/M/L. The downfalls of S/M/L team scoring have been outlines, and they seem like common sense to me. Can someone please try to convince me why S/M/L offers more advantages than problems? I would like to actually read specific comments - other than "it's the most simple" or "it's the best." And please, whoever decides to take this challenge, please keep in mind we are trying to encourage participation (among other goals). Thanks in advance!
Regaridng geographical limits, I agree there should be SOMETHING. I agree that a specific radius would not work for various reasons. But, I believe it was Leianne who mentioned that 90% (for example) of a team's registered members should live within the LMSC. I think that is completely appropriate.
As far as Team TYR. Their members can actually switch teams from 1 meet to another. I've always been confused as to how this happens, and what their USMS cards look like (maybe Julie Heather could answer?), but I know that one of their swimmers switched from Team TYR to SCAQ to TYR to SCAQ within 2 months of meets last year. How does that work?
Finally, I agree with Meg in that there needs to be some leeway for "reasonable" judgment calls in determining when a team should fall into 1 of the 2 categories. As was evidenced, there are so many kinds of teams and workout groups, we need to allow for someone to employ the "we know it when we see it" perspective, and let the team challenge the ruling if they don't like it.
But, I like like the guidelines you are all coming up with, as long as there's that element of freedom for whoever is making that determination. And also, and the end of the day, if Team TYR ends up being a Local/Club team, then like Barry Bonds, everyone will know how to read those final results.*
