first of all, congrats to the meet directors and all the volunteers on a job well done. so organized and efficient!! very impressive. the only thing i wish someone could explain to me is why the usms champ. committee changed the team scoring from large, medium and small team to clumping everyone in the same category. seems extremely unfair to have what i call "real teams" competing against state mega teams. there is no possibility for "real teams" to ever come close to competing against them. if you are going to give team awards at the end of the meet, is there any way you can do it fairly? our team is extremely proud to have gotten as many team members as we did to go to natls. (most of them for the first time), but unfortunately they were very disillusioned (as was i) with the idea that we would be competing against state teams. as one of the coaches i didn't have an explanation. even though we were very proud of our 7th place finish in men's division, and our 12th place in combined, we were only one of a few "real teams" in the top ten. would appreciate responses. maybe even someone from the champ.committee could explain how they felt this scoring system would be more fair to the majority of swimmers. then i can pass it along to my teammates.. i don't want them to be so disillusioned that they lose interest in attending any future natls. thanks
Betsy
Thanks; I am glad this is clearer, we had help at convention from members of both the Rules and Legislative Committees, who made good suggestions to clarify this proposal. The proposal also included a process so that a club that thought it was in the wrong category could protest, and some other details, but this is the general concept.
I know it was confusing to hear all the discussion on the floor of HOD without a clear picture of what was being proposed.
Jim,
I agree with your concerns about small, medium and large divisions, and heard a lot at convention about how arbitrary those divisons were, and how we may be encouraging clubs to tell people not to come to Nationals.
On the other hand, I also heard that most coaches want everyone possible to attend Nationals, and that under the old s/m/l scoring system, the cutoffs for divisions were determined after entries closed -- so I do not have any insight on which point of view is closer to what really happens. I was just trying to address the views that have shown up on this forum.
I do know that a trip to Nationals is expensive, so it is difficult for coaches to encourage more people to go (particularly younger swimmers just out of school when the meet is across the country) and many people may decide not to go at all, particularly if their local programs provide meets with good competition and pools. The Top Ten listings reflect this, as they always have people in the Top Ten that did not go to Nationals.
On the point about having divisions based on numbers of USMS registered swimmers -- I like that idea, too, but I also realize that there are many Masters swimmers that do not compete. At all, ever. Or they do open water swims or triathlons, but not Nationals, so I think that while while using registered swmmers on a club is an easy measure, it may skew the way the divisions are made up.
For example, you could be on a team like Davis Aquatic Masters (Pacific's largest, with over 700 members) and they do not send more than 6 or 7 swimmers to Nationals that are held outside California (and sometimes no swimmers) -- should they really be in the "large club team" division? Or you could have elite recruiting teams (I don't think there is anything in the rules that says they cannot recruit from across the country), and they might limit their registered USMS swimmers to a small number, say 25, so that they will always be classed as a "small club team".
I am not sure there is an answer that will satisfy everyone.....but I do think, given the interest the topic has generated, that we ought to try something else.
Leianne
^^^
Betsy
Thanks; I am glad this is clearer, we had help at convention from members of both the Rules and Legislative Committees, who made good suggestions to clarify this proposal. The proposal also included a process so that a club that thought it was in the wrong category could protest, and some other details, but this is the general concept.
I know it was confusing to hear all the discussion on the floor of HOD without a clear picture of what was being proposed.
Jim,
I agree with your concerns about small, medium and large divisions, and heard a lot at convention about how arbitrary those divisons were, and how we may be encouraging clubs to tell people not to come to Nationals.
On the other hand, I also heard that most coaches want everyone possible to attend Nationals, and that under the old s/m/l scoring system, the cutoffs for divisions were determined after entries closed -- so I do not have any insight on which point of view is closer to what really happens. I was just trying to address the views that have shown up on this forum.
I do know that a trip to Nationals is expensive, so it is difficult for coaches to encourage more people to go (particularly younger swimmers just out of school when the meet is across the country) and many people may decide not to go at all, particularly if their local programs provide meets with good competition and pools. The Top Ten listings reflect this, as they always have people in the Top Ten that did not go to Nationals.
On the point about having divisions based on numbers of USMS registered swimmers -- I like that idea, too, but I also realize that there are many Masters swimmers that do not compete. At all, ever. Or they do open water swims or triathlons, but not Nationals, so I think that while while using registered swmmers on a club is an easy measure, it may skew the way the divisions are made up.
For example, you could be on a team like Davis Aquatic Masters (Pacific's largest, with over 700 members) and they do not send more than 6 or 7 swimmers to Nationals that are held outside California (and sometimes no swimmers) -- should they really be in the "large club team" division? Or you could have elite recruiting teams (I don't think there is anything in the rules that says they cannot recruit from across the country), and they might limit their registered USMS swimmers to a small number, say 25, so that they will always be classed as a "small club team".
I am not sure there is an answer that will satisfy everyone.....but I do think, given the interest the topic has generated, that we ought to try something else.
Leianne
^^^
