Speed Zone

Former Member
Former Member
Cesar Cielo is fastest swimmer in the world -- 25 yards in 8.88 to the foot -- he was just trying to "maintain" on the second 25... There are 3 ways to swim faster in any given race: 1) Improve your technique -- if you become more effecient in your technique, your times will drop across the board 2) Maintain a pace as close as possible to maximum speed -- You can hold your maximum speed for 6-8 seconds. There are no swim races of that length - so when training for any swimming race (50 up the mile), you are trying to maintain a pace as close to your maximum speed as possible. 3) Get Faster = improve your maximum speed I would say on average, Masters swimmers (and age-groupers) spend their in the water workout season according to the following breakdown (rough guess): 1) Improving technique = 20-30% 2) Maintaining close to max = 65-79% 3) Improving Max Speed = 1-5% Think about it -- if you swim 4-5 times per week, that equals about 20 hours a month. Did you spend more than a full hour in October on maximum speed ? This Thread is all about Category 3 -- Improving your Max Speed --
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    Suppose you came upon someone in the woods working to saw down a tree. They are exhausted from working for hours. You suggest they take a break to sharpen the saw. They might reply, "I don't have time to sharpen the saw, I'm busy sawing!" So - after taking the New Years break, it's time to sharpen our saws for the new season. What does that mean though for a swimmer ? Work on your start or technique ? Get stronger ? Swim more IM ? Here is what it means to me --- I take my main race - 100 Free - from the last meet and luckily, I have a video. Then I break down the video into splits, turnover, turn times, start, underwaters, and so on. 100 Free in December - relay race 49.8 equals 50.6 in flat start: Splits: 11.75 / 12.75 / 13.25 / 12.85 >>> 3 rd 25 was too slow Strokes by 25: 12 / 15 (+1) / 15.5 (+1) / 17 >>> I often take an extra stroke to initiate my turn - that's why I have the +1 /// also I took an early stroke after the last turn. Turns: Last 5 meters into the wall about 3.2 sec (head going through 5 meters until foot touches the wall). It takes me about .9 to 1 sec to get my feet to the wall (meaning stop of forward progress before the wall until the feet actually hit the wall). Also - I start my first stroke after the wall pretty much exactly at the 5 meters - which takes 1.6 seconds. So the overall turn time is 4.8 seconds. >>>> I should try to find some good comparison video of world class swimmers to see if they have the same ratio. Of course I will not be as fast as they are - but it can give a good comparison. Turnover (how many cycles per minute - one left + one right arm pull equals a cycle --- some good stop watches have this feature -- or you can just time 2 cycles and figure it out): by 25s --- First = 49-47; 2nd = 46-43; 43-42; 44-44 >>>>> you can see why the 3rd 25 was much slower - my turnover dropped too low. I have a very long stroke - so I will lever be at above 50, but 42 in a 100 Free is way too low. So what do I need to change ? - eliminate the extra stroke into the wall and get my feet to the wall much faster >>> major change in my turns needed. But this could be an easy extra 1/10th per turn. - Up the turnover - but there is a catch. You can't just increase your turnover without changing your length of stroke. For example - I take 15 strokes in a 25m Free -- if I increase my turnover from 43 to 45 cycles and keep everything else the same, I would drop .46 sec per 25. Which sounds good, but is unrealistic. I will probably also have to take an extra stroke. Which means, I would have to shoot for a turnover of at least 47-48. Also - my next race is yards - so I will need to adjust the stroke count per 25 to yards (that's actually not that difficult - it's pretty much exactly 2 strokes less for me). So - my goal for the season is a 100 Free swim. But rather than having a strong race or a good season, I want to swim the race the following way: I want to take 14 strokes per 25 (not counting the first lap) with a turnover of 47. That is something I can practice today - I have a pacer and I can count strokes. Now in order to do that, I do need more than just the pacer -- I do need to lift and get stronger -- more precisely, I need to get quicker / more power. The same strength level with more quickness. Something like that. Also - my turns need a lot of work - my core is not strong enough, which shows on the 3rd and 4th 25 -- I hurt the most in my core when I get tired. But this is my starting point - before figuring out any exact workouts. More from the speedzone in the coming weeks ...
  • Erik - I just happened on to this thread very early this morning. Great feedback for those of us trying to get faster - and coaching these types of swimmers. I just wrote the SPMA newsletter coaches column yesterday suggesting some ideas to get ready for the championship meets later this Spring. Definitely not as detailed as your discussions here, but then I don't have an ounce of that great "perfectionist" German in my blood! The points I mentioned are similar. #1 being the break down of the components in a specific race. Practicing and perfecting each. I watch Jason Lezak do just this type of training all the time. Rarely do I see him get up & go on an entire 50 or for that matter a set of repeat 50 freestyles. #2 There are many masters swimmers who claim they want to get faster, but then refuse to swim in many or any meets to swim really fast or practice racing. I suggested going to the 1-day masters meets and racing as much and as hard as possible through the season in lieu of a regular masters swim practice. I see you do it - and I try to be an example of it as well. It is exhausting, but by the time the championships come along, 1 or 2 events a day as opposed to 5 sure feels great! I'm off to swim. If you can believe it, a sprint practice. Coached by one of our great sub-coaches. Dickie Fernandes, who hails at least more recently from Tuscon Ford Masters in AZ. He loves kicking and all this sprinting stuff! Thanks again and I look forward to more of your advice!
  • Amazing and excellent advice on adjusting the given masters swim practice while keeping the eye on the goal. Can be very tough for a masters swimmer who is trying to hold their place in a fast lane. Or keep pace with a lanemate who needs to swim with finz just to keep up with the pace. Patience is such a virture. Find this virtue within yourself and you will get faster grasshopper... Erik Hochstein is the USMS SAGE. And you should see him swim!
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    Sprintasizing a Masters workout - If your home workouts are anything like ours, all the sets are more fit for an open water or distance swimmer than an actual sprinter. Sprinters HAVE to change the workouts according to their needs. Sure - this may not make you popular with the coach or your lane mates - but they are also not going to help you on the blocks at the end of the season trying to reach your goals. Here was our workout last Wed - long-course for our fast group: 400 warm-up 4x100 stroke / Free 6x50 2 on 45 / 2 on 40 / 2 on 50 Main set: 3x200 Free + easy 200 Kick and Free (easy 200 always on 4 min) 3 rounds total = 2400 meters: Round 1 on 3:00 / Round 2 on 2:50 / Round 3 on 2:40 The lane average is about 2:30 swims on a set like this - so you can figure out the according intervals / rest for your speed. Sure - I could swim the set - pound out 9x200 with an easy one as rest -- but that will not help me with my speed -- actually I think it would be a big negative to do too many sets like this. This is also my time to work on my aerobic conditioning - but I want to 1) stay technically clean and 2) swim my 100 or 200 stroke instead of going towards my distance stroke. So here is a way to adjust: Round 1: 200s= 25 kick fast / 25 swim fast / 50 easy > twice Round 2: 200s= IM (only 25 Fly though) ROund 3: 200s= fast with Pd and Pb I was still fresh on the last round - swimming 3 strong 200s with very clean technique. I would have swam without Pd and Pb, but we had 13 people in our lane and the pool gets very choppy - tough to swim clean. So here are some guidelines to adjust the workouts - if needed: - Never change the set or the interval - just adjust the intensity - Move one lane down - or swim last in your lane (I spend a lot of time at the end of our lane) - always add in some sort of kick / swim with short sprints - figure out which part of the set you will swim fast - maybe it's only 1 or 2 swims; maybe it's one round. Plan everything around that round. On the set above - maybe you need much more time to recover - so just swim every 3rd 200 fast, maybe you won't last the entire set -- then swim always the first 100 clean and fast + an easy 100 stroke. If you start breaking down, you stop or move down another lane and swim stroke.
  • Erik, I hope you enjoyed your vacation. It sounds like you're remotivated. I've got a question for you based on you last post. I don't swim in large group workouts and I'm usually able to tailor my workouts pretty specifically to my needs. However, some of my training partners do swim in large group settings occasionally with lots of tri hammerheads and I suggested (after consluting with the coach and their lanemates) that they could lead their lane and go at a much higher intesity but just not go the full distance. With the example you used of 3 X 200 on 3:00 - or whatever- what if they just cranked the first 100 and then moved out of the way for the swimmers following them. In effect they would be doing 3 X 100 on 3:00 and thus be able to swim at a much higher intensity while not disrupting the actual set. Would this be considered kosher? Would it piss lanemates or the coach off even if you explained your particular needs? I would never do this if I were a guest of some team for one or two workouts, but if you had to work with a tri oriented team would this be an option? Rich I would hope that, if you're a regular at your masters' team, the coach would be open to it and/or offering sprint options as part of the workout. For example, I came back from the SCM season and told the coach that I wanted to do more sprinting. She said she had historically offered sprint options, but had so few takers that she stopped. She's going to try again and see how it goes. She doesn't offer them every day, but did offer one last Friday. Sure enough, most of the people chose the distance workout, but we had three people who sprinted.
  • ROund 3: 200s= fast with Pd and Pb Just to prove what a chemistry nerd I am, the first thought that occured to me was, "why would he swim with palladium and lead?":doh: Good advice, particularly on integrating the changes to minimize disruption of the other (non-sprinter) swimmers.
  • Erik, I hope you enjoyed your vacation. It sounds like you're remotivated. I've got a question for you based on you last post. I don't swim in large group workouts and I'm usually able to tailor my workouts pretty specifically to my needs. However, some of my training partners do swim in large group settings occasionally with lots of tri hammerheads and I suggested (after consluting with the coach and their lanemates) that they could lead their lane and go at a much higher intesity but just not go the full distance. With the example you used of 3 X 200 on 3:00 - or whatever- what if they just cranked the first 100 and then moved out of the way for the swimmers following them. In effect they would be doing 3 X 100 on 3:00 and thus be able to swim at a much higher intensity while not disrupting the actual set. Would this be considered kosher? Would it piss lanemates or the coach off even if you explained your particular needs? I would never do this if I were a guest of some team for one or two workouts, but if you had to work with a tri oriented team would this be an option? Rich
  • Just to prove what a chemistry nerd I am, the first thought that occured to me was, "why would he swim with palladium and lead?":doh: don't feel bad, i was right there with you! :agree:
  • Just to prove what a chemistry nerd I am, the first thought that occured to me was, "why would he swim with palladium and lead?":doh: Good advice, particularly on integrating the changes to minimize disruption of the other (non-sprinter) swimmers. I was thinking 'why swim with lead, just get a chute if you want added resistance'
  • Would this be considered kosher? Would it piss lanemates or the coach off even if you explained your particular needs? It certainly wouldn't piss me off, seeing as how you specified that part of the program would be advance notice to the others in the lane. To me, modifying the workout in a courteous and non-disruptive way, to address personal goals or injury or whatever, is more "leading by example" than "causing trouble."