Request for LONG distance training (?)

I believe that the concept of interval training began with runners and then was applied to swimming. As for American distance swimming, as Ion posted in another thread we had a great tradition of 1500/1650 champions in the 70's (Goodell, Hackett, and Shaw); they swam 100K or more per week of interval swimming. Not much "LSD" either (unless you consider 100x100 on !:00 long slow distance).

If I am not mistaken (though I might be) the workouts posted here are done on a voluntary basis - so we should be thankful for that alone. If someone has an issue with the interval then they should ask some questions/advice, not expect Mike, Emmet, Nate or whoever to address every possible scenario. James in regards to focus of training and events - most swim events are under the 400m/500yrd distance. Standard masters meet has 15 to 16 events (not counting relays and depending on pool LCM vs SCY or SCM) of 400/500 and only 2 events of a greater distance. You also answered your own question on why intervals. Swimming is very technique oriented (IMHO), so a break in a swim gives time for a coach to provide feedback. A very common problem/mistake in doing long swims is as you get fatigued your form suffers and unless you correct this the bad habits can become ingrained into your rested stroke performance.

Interval training was formally introduced in the 1930's in Germany by two scientist named Gerschler and Reindell, if memory serves me correctly - to train an 800 meter runner named Rudolph Harbig, but was actually focused more on heart rate response and recovery than the actual distances and rest time. It evolved more towards distance/time as it was a pain to constantly take your heart rate. With the advent of inexpensive, wearable heart rate monitors, there is more heart rate work being done (in track) these days than previously. Due to the water element involved, heart rate monitoring is more problematic and hence the standard distance/time interval that is still practiced in swimming. Track and Field did use extensive (often exclusive) intervals to train distance runners in the 1950's through the early 1970's, most notably successful were athletes like Emil Zatopec, who did do things like 50 X 400 meters (or more). The longest pool race (1500/1650) is roughly equivalent in time to a 5000m run, so the use of extensive intervals is not surprising as it is often done that way in track today. That was a long-winded way of getting to this point: My original question was about LONG distance swimming (let's say 5k up to English Channel type efforts) and my wondering how a coach would train someone for that. There is little published info on this topic. In that regard, I would expect some longer pace swims ("LSD" would be a poor term for this, I think) would be done analogous to what marathon runners (~10k swim race in time) do. But again, it's just a guess and I still have nothing "definitive." -LBJ

Originally posted by kaelonj If I am not mistaken (though I might be) the workouts posted here are done on a voluntary basis - so we should be thankful for that alone. If someone has an issue with the interval then they should ask some questions/advice, not expect Mike, Emmet, Nate or whoever to address every possible scenario. I think that the point was that the intervals for some of the sets are too fast or not appropriate for everyone; if the goal for the set is stated (basic endurance, threshold endurance, etc.), then the intervals can be adjusted based on an individual's anaerobic threshold (calculated from a T1000 or T2000 sswim).

I have been looking for the answer. I have read higb and low and have not found anything specific to long distance swimming. I have a book on my desk that is interesting, Strength Training for Swimmers. It doesn't discuss the training for LDS or training rather it contests the notion that one needs to do lots of yardage or meters for most swimming events. That kind of leaves us long distance people out of the equation. I will tell you what I have had success with and why. I get bored swimming long distances in a pool so this year I have cross trained a lot. I am not doing much pool distance. During the week I do between 1000 and 2000 yards but they are intervals using a heart rate monitor and I mix in running 3 miles a couple of times a week with a cycle class. I do my long and slow stuff on saturday or sunday. I have to say that the other day I swam 2 miles in one hour with a heart rate that didn't exceed 141 and I could have kept going. What am I saying here? This is what works for me with the time I have but intervals are a way of getting to longer distances without doing the distance. It saves time! Hope this helps.

tecumshe9, I realize each sport has similiar and different training progams. I am familiar with cycling and running training as well. I am also familiar with those who believe LSD is the only way to train for distance. With regards to training and physiology: I do believe, and have read a lot about, using the 5 intensity symbols for training for endurance sports. I have also read alot about, and have years of experience in training for distance swimming. However, it is not my intention to begin a debate. I am sure there are many well versed and more experienced posters who can debate this. Simply from my experience over several years, and by training for endurance sports myself combined with my background, I do believe that training all energy systems has a definite physiological and therefore a training effect. I also realize that all bodies are different and what works for one, may not necessarily work for another. Just that my training is certainly working for me. Perhaps others may benefit from learning about all the ways distance swimmers train and find a way that works for them. Happy training. Kiwi

I think we agree more than disagree and in fact I know many cyclists and runners who could benefit from a little interval training. They do sometimes have hills which is a little interval training whether welcome or not. My only point is it seems like swimmers seem so adverse to continuous swimming as part of training for reasons that relate more to tradition than science, more to the practical problems of coaching 30 swimmers at once than to science. I think with most of us having jobs, families etc and often under some time pressure when we work out masters swimmers need to seriously look at continuous swimming AS PART OF a workout program. The whole idea of being in the aerobic range is that you are not working too hard so a rest interval makes no sense to me. What is it you are recovering from? When training in this range you should not be building up lactic acid or oxygen debt.

I am not sure I buy your premise that swimming training is so different. I ride with a guy who does the same thing except on the bike and for much longer distances and he is not nearly as fast as some of the other cyclists I train with. I think swimming training is not really that different. The top cyclists and runners worry alot about power and form. In some ways swimming is more technical than cycling but in some ways less, you cannot crash swimming, the terrain does not vary etc

I am not sure what you mean by "main workout". Heart rate training is welll tested and I think it applies to swimming. Most of the distance of a distance swimmer should be at aerobic pace. the problem with the swimmer in your example isn't that he swims 5K at a time, the problem is this is the only type of training he does. The premise that swimming is somehow different and you need to do interval training instead of continuous distance has no support in physiology.

I mix it all up. Since I do longer sets. 250's and up and with this thread making me think I have spent the last week doing shorter intervals. I got in with a friend who is fast and tried to keep up with him for short workout which consisted of a sprint 50, sprint 100 and sprint 50 with 1 minute rest between. Now I swim a lot so I am in good shape and after that set my arms were on fire. Shoulders felt like they should look like the hulk. This to me tells me that I am working my arms so l continued to do some short sets but not as fast to help make them stronger. Is it working? I am not sure but I can tell you this-the short intervals worked a different muscle or worked them really hard which is making them stronger.