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Trans girls/biological males competing against females

03FM3

I'm hoping USMS follows the example of other sports organizations and disallows biological males who are trans females to compete against biological females.  The question of fairness/unfairness is so obvious that this topic shouldn't even need discussion, but unfortunately some of us are so blinded by the sacrosanct idea of "inclusion" that we've allowed this ridiculous idea to take hold.  Please take a fair stand on this issue.  Mike Sherrill

  • in reply to 02UJF

    Love it when ppl have a backbone!

  • in reply to Angie Griffin

    LOVE IT!! 

  • in reply to 0AMST

    LOVE IT!!!

  • in reply to 38JDX

    Why do you find the post to be “extremely vile”? I don’t think it’s “discounting of science” per se…because those who have competed, in any sport, know the history, and have at least a ’basic’ understanding of the difference, and physiology of the human body. So, with regard to athletic competition, what else is there to know? With the exception of just a couple of athletic disciplines that aren’t really “mainstream” sports, if you put all competitors into one category…cisgender and transgender…who would come out ahead? (rhetorical) 

    Dan

  • This makes me very sad. I hope everyone notices the links from Kyle Deery's post. 

    USMS has a policy and it is being followed. I am sure the policy was well thought out at the time and debated. I am sure there will be discussions of changing the policy, but right now USMS is following the rules as written. 

    I think USMS should test WR and NR swimmers for PEDS, but I am not going to leave because they don't. 

    I understand this issue is not the same and people get much more emotional about it, but remember trans people are people and should be accommodated by some fair means.

  • in reply to Allen Stark

    But is it fair to put one person's feelings over the fairness and respectable treatment of 50+ people?

  • I don't know, I don't see the big deal. I'm never swimming against the people in the water with me, I'm swimming against my own time. (Same philosophy I use in running races, cycling races, or triathlons)

    Also, my whole life there have been girls and/or women who were faster than me even though I'm a guy. So it's not like guys are automatically faster than girls. 

    I don't know, I know people are passionate about this, but it's just sports. It's not like we're in some kind of dystopian world where if you don't place at a swim meet you don't get to eat tonight. There's so much other stuff to worry about (like you think people in war-torn countries would care about this?) that this just seems small potatoes and I can't get worked up about it.

  • in reply to RFWVT

    So why are there different competitions for males and females ? 

  • in reply to 38JDX

    Well Caitlyn Jenner disagrees with you -  and "your science" - would like to actually see it - seriously.  Let's see it - I can't find it. I competed with many members of my team getting cheated by the East German women - this is seems much more of an unfair advantage -- but lets see the science

  • This is the research I think seems valid and also there is a "simple" example - Lia Thomas   https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/15/865?utm_source=chatgpt.com

    Lia Thomas best time in 500 Free - 4:18-20 ....   -- then after the change - 4:33 -- lets take the 15 seconds --  difference in best times for 500 Free between male and female records 22 seconds... and overall this simple example does show a difference but simply not enough - and the article does show that muscle strength simple does not go down to a level that would make the competition fair. 

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