200 Triathletes Rescued

It wouldn't surprise me if there were a lot of people who had only done tri swims in a lake. I'd be curious to see pictures of the surf that day.

Interesting view on the ethics of competition. You CAN accept assistance if you don't mind getting a *variable* time penalty. Which is determined *after* the event is concluded? Wow.

An interesting question would be: did the people who got help continue on in the race, or were they disqualified for getting assistance? Here is the rule for USAT sanctioned events. I'm not sure if it was USAT sanctioned or how the rule was applied. I would imagine that any triathlete coming from a non-swimming background who finished the swim would definitely definitely gone on. "Unauthorized Assistance. No participant shall accept from any person (other than a race official) physical assistance in any form . . . . Any violation of this Section shall result in a variable time penalty."

The scuttlebut is that some of the triathletes were having problems getting out of the surf at the end of the swim and had to be helped by lifeguards. Only two cases were life threatening (as reported). 169 is close enough to say "almost 200." Out of 3000 participants, this is still a large percentage. Would be interesting to see similar statistics from USMS sanctioned OW swims. An interesting question would be: did the people who got help continue on in the race, or were they disqualified for getting assistance?

Just a few thoughts I've since spoken to a few folks that were there. These are not to my knowledge numbers supported by incident reports, medical visits, etc. Those that were there saw nothing unusual (and believe me, 169 "rescues" at a tri would be absolutely remarkable). There was, as at every tri, the swimmer that has a hard time with surf and needs a shoulder to lean on or an elbow taken for balance. As for the USAT rule, the rules are such that a lifeguard, like an aid station volunteer, or a tech van, all fall under the rubric of the race officials or management. That rule is designed that an athlete cannot get, for example, and extra tube from his wife if he gets a flat. But an athlete can get a tube from the tech van, or gels from an aid station, or even hang onto a kayak during the swim if they have to (but forward progress is not allowed - that whole issue is for another thread). You would not, however, be allowed to rest on a friend's kayak, or take a gel from a non racing buddy. Again, we have no idea how the term "assistance." Until then, we don't really know what was done. And this definition would also be necessary to compare it to a USMS OW swim. But I can guarantee you more people need help in tris than do in OW swims. It's unfortunate, but many take the dim view that the swim is not as relevant since it comprises a small percentage of the total race. I have seen tris where the swimmer has never been in the ocean before, never in a wetsuit, they just think they've splashed in a pool for a bit so they will be fine. I completely and 100% acknowledge that.... but this article is simply cr*p "journalism" of the "headless body found in topless bar" variety. LA Tri is USAT sanctioned As far as variable time penalties, they are handed out at the time of violation by a race marshall (assuming the violation is witnessed), not after the fact, and whether they are served immediately or later depends on the race. In some cases (drafting), some races make you sit in a penalty tent. In most, they enter the penalty in the results and that time is added to your total elapsed time. Variable time penalties are a well know rule in triathlon, so anyone that doesn't like them is better off not doing tris. Natascha Badmann won Kona Ironman (the world championships) after sitting in the penalty tent for 4 minutes for drafting. Nothing ethical or unethical about it, you pay your penalty, do the time, and move on. Just like a foul in basketball, offsides in soccer, penalty in football, i.e. every other sport. Even OW swimming has race marshalls in the mix for how swimmers act, yes?

until the swim portion of triathlons = 1/3 of the race; some athletes will neglect the training and preparation necessary to complete an open water swim safely and unassisted (and yes, wetsuits are assistance also), now having said that, i am continually impressed by the enormous numbers of participants that these events attract, and many USMS clubs have greater than 50% of their membership actively tri-ing.

chaso I do agree with you 100 percent. I went to watch a tri over the summer and most of the people were swimming freestyle with there heads out some did seem to know what stoke to do. As long distance open water swimmer it makes me kinda upset that the swimming is so short. I have tri friends that when I tell them my goal of doing marthoon swimming they say well you know thats only 25 or so miles or swimming. Ironman people ride, bike and swim 140miles. It sad because the swimming even in an Ironman distance is 2,5milles. I think that its suppose to be a test of how well you can do all three events well but if the swim is so short there is now way that one would give much thought to the swim. Just me venting. I have many good tri friends and love them and admire there doing Ironmans, but the swimming needs to be just as important as the bike and run. because when it comes down to it you just have to be a good runner of biker.

Just a few thoughts.. Again, we have no idea how the term "assistance." Until then, we don't really know what was done. And this definition would also be necessary to compare it to a USMS OW swim. .... but this article is simply cr*p "journalism" of the "headless body found in topless bar" variety. LA Tri is USAT sanctioned As far as variable time penalties, they are handed out at the time of violation by a race marshall (assuming the violation is witnessed), not after the fact, and whether they are served immediately or later depends on the race. ... Even OW swimming has race marshalls in the mix for how swimmers act, yes? You make several interesting points. In USMS OW events, assistance of any sort is reason for disqualification. Resting on a kayak, being physically guided out of the water, any touching that is other than accidental is not allowed. Even handing food or drink to the swimmer is a very particular affair. Purity of this sort would probably send the Tri event registrations plummeting, since someone who cannot make 1 or 2 miles without assisted resting would be unable to justify the entry fee. In OW races, the marshalls are on the course to enforce the rules, not decide to what extent they were broken. It would be very interesting to investigate the differences between USMS OW and USAT sanction requirements. As for crap journalism, you can believe what you like. The professional lifeguards and firemen making reports are not in the habit of pumping up numbers for salacious reading. In fact, it creates a considerable amount of paperwork (incident reports) if the person needed assistance other than a hand on the rescue boat to rest. That could be the majority of the cases, but assistance was given nonetheless. The water temperature, with the current and/or rough surf were probably enough to create an environment that would easily foster 169 "assists" out of 2800 competitors in the water. The fact that USAT allows time penalties is a marvel of marketing. It keeps the feeling of competition alive without having to take someone's money after 10 minutes and saying, "you are out" for having broken a rule by getting assistance. Everyone can justify sitting in a time out tent and starting the bike ride or run a little later, as long as they get to cross the finish line.

Ironman people ride, bike and swim 140miles. It sad because the swimming even in an Ironman distance is 2,5milles. I think that its suppose to be a test of how well you can do all three events well but if the swim is so short there is now way that one would give much thought to the swim. From what I understand, in the original "Ironman" contests in Hawaii, the swimming was "only" 2.4 miles, but that was 2.4 miles over some of the largest surf in the world - swimming up and down mountains. They use that same distance for all Ironmen, but most of them are in civilized waters. The Tri folks say you can't win by swimming, but you lose by it. Seeing as more than 90% of triathlete deaths happen in the water? Well, you can lose big. If you look at the results, the order for the bike times ends up being almost identical to the overall order. That really shouldn't be. Perhaps someday they will get their balance right.

You make several interesting points. In USMS OW events, assistance of any sort is reason for disqualification. Resting on a kayak, being physically guided out of the water, any touching that is other than accidental is not allowed. Even handing food or drink to the swimmer is a very particular affair. Purity of this sort would probably send the Tri event registrations plummeting, since someone who cannot make 1 or 2 miles without assisted resting would be unable to justify the entry fee. In OW races, the marshalls are on the course to enforce the rules, not decide to what extent they were broken. It would be very interesting to investigate the differences between USMS OW and USAT sanction requirements. As for crap journalism, you can believe what you like. The professional lifeguards and firemen making reports are not in the habit of pumping up numbers for salacious reading. In fact, it creates a considerable amount of paperwork (incident reports) if the person needed assistance other than a hand on the rescue boat to rest. That could be the majority of the cases, but assistance was given nonetheless. The water temperature, with the current and/or rough surf were probably enough to create an environment that would easily foster 169 "assists" out of 2800 competitors in the water. The fact that USAT allows time penalties is a marvel of marketing. It keeps the feeling of competition alive without having to take someone's money after 10 minutes and saying, "you are out" for having broken a rule by getting assistance. Everyone can justify sitting in a time out tent and starting the bike ride or run a little later, as long as they get to cross the finish line. USMS rules are different than USAT rules, so a comparison between what you can do in a USMS event and a USAT event is about as accurate as comapring NBA and MLS rules. Both involve running around a large green field and a ball. That's about it. USAT and USMS rules both involve swimming in open water, and that's it. I would expect someone that hangs on a kayak in a USMS event to be disqualified. The rules are online as USAT and I assume USMS, so it's not that difficult to compare. Do I think the hanging on a kayak rule is good? yes and no. As a decent swimmer (by triathlon standards, not swimming standards), no, I don't think it's good, I believe everyone should be properly trained in the conditions of the race in order to finish the leg, be it swim, bike or run. Is the rule a nod to marketing to get more people to do tris? Partly, it's also safety. But I think in general encouraging people to race is a good thing on many fronts. Healthy for the sport. Healthy for the person. More races, etc. As to time penalties, as I said, it's a penalty, just as a free throw is in basketball or a free kick is in soccer. You foul someone to prevent them from making a shot, they get to take a couple free ones. You draft off someone on the bike, you serve a penalty, either physically sitting out or by time addition. No one is determining to what extent a rule is broken, so I don't get that comment. Perhaps you are not aware that each violation with a "variable time penalty" has a set time period for each violation? The word "variable" refers to the fact that it's a different set time penalty depending on the length of the course and whether the violation is a first one or repeat one. It doesn't mean it's up to someone's discretion. i.e., assistance is a 4:00 penalty, second violation additional time, etc. You can read about the rule here if you are interested: www.campwhitcombmason.org/.../2010 USAT Most Commonly Violated Rules.pdf As for the "crap journalism" comment, I don't think either of us can comment on the accuracy of the numbers since neither of us know the definition of "assistance" or how the numbers were calculated. But I stand by my comment that "200 triathletes" were not, in fact "rescued" at the LA triathlon. Others are free to disagree of course. If someone can produce 169 "incident reports," I will publicly retract my statement. As to other points... I can guarantee that 99% of the triathletes were wearing wetsuits, and the water temp was mid to high 60s. I know, I know, it's not "pure" open water swimming, blah blah blah, and the water temps don't require wetsuits, but wetsuits are legal below a certain temp, and they provide a speed benefit. If you want the fastest time you can do, you wear a wetsuit. As to the length of the IM swim, a little background is required. Way back when in the 70s they had the Waikiki Roughwater swim, the Ride around Oahu, and the Honolulu Marathon. A bar bet was made as to who were the better athletes, and the solution was to add them all together as a challenge. There was no cutoff time, no race marshalls, no rules. hence, 2.4/112/26.2. The swim wasn't anything other than the Waikiki roughwater, so it wasn't through huge surf, unless the surf happened to be big, I suppose. No idea how the shorter distances were calculated (other than a half ironman which is obvious). There have been efforts to balance out the distances, the Tri 101 series, a new tri in Abu Dhabi of all places, and the ITU long course tri to be held in Vegas next year. But triathletes being what they are, they all like the shorter swims since it's the hardest part for many triathletes. So these races suffer. I do one small local race that's based on more or less equal legs, .5 mile swim, 6 mile bike 2 mile run. But those races are the exception. 2.4 is short in comparison to the other two legs, as are all tri swims. As a swimmer, it sucks to get passed by everyone on the bike and run, but that's the way it is. I've completed one Ironman, 5 halfs, and countless sprints and Olys. And, as a sub hour IM swimmer, I've been pulled from the water during an ironman due to unforeseen medical issues. I was on my way to another sub hour swim. Was I unprepared? Nope. People just have to understand and accept that triathlon swimming is a different sport than USMS OW swimming. Just as USAT running is different than USATF running. I do USMS swim races. I do USAT tris. I do USATF run courses. In each one, I know there are different rules applying to each event. Different rules, different mindsets. If one believes that a cetain set of rules is unethical, or violates their notion of honor, they shouldn't do the event. Pretty simple, really. ETA - "Ironman" races are owned by WTC and do not, generally, follow USAT rules. Wow, that turned into a dissertation... sorry about that!