Are Most Masters Teams Training Wrong?

Consider yourself very lucky, then. This is not typical in my experience--and the idea of an open lane is a mere pipe dream for most. Have you or others on your team chatted with your coach about what your individual goals are? Or maybe chatted with others on the team on what they want/need to do during workout? Every masters coach I've met has been extremely receptive in helping me plan things out, giving specific sets during workouts, as well as ideas of things to do both swimming on my own as well as outside of the pool (such as weights). And I've rarely been alone when I've done different sets (of course you don't want to spring this on the coach day of workout but plan in advance).

I agree that the question is"training wrong for what?"If your goal is fast 50s,100s,or even 200s then 200s with 10 sec rest aren't going to maximize performance.I do my own workouts and almost all my swimming is either race pace or recovery.I think if you want to swim a good 200 you had better be doing training at your goal speed(broken 200s,100s at 200 pace etc.)

I agree, coaches and their programs must cater to the needs of the majority of paying members. The typical work out at Longhorn Masters is middle distance oriented which fits the needs of triathletes, open water swimmers, fitness swimmers, competitive swimmers, and those who want to L B N. But this is masters, coaches are fine with swimmers doing what they need to do. As long as they keep them in the loop & are nice about it. Plus we all have lives, families, work and home, it's just swimming. In masters we can show up late, leave early, skip practices, skip sets, and modify sets. So YOU need to know what you need to do and make sure that you do it. There's also ways to modify sets and not get in the way of your lane mates. Make it work. Stay out of the way, be easy to pass, find your moments. I occasionally email or text my coach to let her know about what I'm training for as far as events, meets, or special projects. If there's enough swimmers preparing for the same meet, she'll carve out a few taper lanes and write some taper sets. I agree 100% with your analysis; however, I disagree in part with the thread title that teams are training "wrong". If you asked each swimmer to write down why they swim and what their goals are, you will get as many answers as their are swimmers on deck. Put another way, my $65 monthly membership isn't worth any more than the slowest lane 8 swimmer's $65/$85 and reasons why they swim. Given the stats on our team, there is only one swimmer I know of that swims to race 1 meet per month on average, and goal times are to continue to make USA regional/grand prix cuts in local USA A meets, and swimming a full line up only at selected masters meets. For the other 599+ members of the team, they are more interested in open water events, explicitly not swimming any meets, training for triathlons, rehabing/recovering/recuperating and many, many swimmers who basically want to hang on to whatever lane they are currently in, and have no interest in hearing about better technique or anything that in the category of "taking a step back to take a step forward". Their goal is met each practice - which is essentially the opposite of why you might be swimming (that would be sprints. in a meet.) There is no right/wrong way to approach it - it's just if you want something different, then you have to find a way. My motto is "I love meets! I don't like to practice very hard!" I have never liked training hard, I can't stand to feel the burn, and I really could care less about "toughness of conditioning sets." Even lane 2 marvels when I actually did a 400/300/200/100 without stopping this year. And that was only because I couldn't find a way to skip without totally screwing up the (crowded lanes). I still resent doing that set even today! But if I really can't stand doing those sets, then I also accept the range of times I am or am not capable of swimming. Notice I did NOT say that I SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be swimming - NO SUCH THING!!! My coaches fully support me, and I think my teammates know me well enough when I sit out on most sets. Put another way, we pay either $65 or $85 a month, and it seems silly to run a business catering to the 1 person who trains as a sprinter rather than the 599+ who like the workouts that are given! There is some customization - we have sprint day/lanes, distance/open water lanes, fear of water intro practices, fraternity of flyers month, etc. But if you want something really specific, I think it's a one-on-one discussion with your coach and what YOU need to get there. I think there is no better example of the emphasis of the majority of masters swimmers than Jim Montgomery - and most of his team building/program building is geared towards true beginner swimmers.

Have you or others on your team chatted with your coach about what your individual goals are? Or maybe chatted with others on the team on what they want/need to do during workout? Good question and I don't really know. For the events I swim I'm happy with the training, but I could see how a sprinter might not be getting what they want or need. My team doesn't have a lot of people who compete regularly, so maybe it isn't a big issue for us, but I'm thinking on a more generic level than just my team. However, my team has a board meeting next week and I'll be sure to bring this topic up.

I agree that the question is"training wrong for what?"If your goal is fast 50s,100s,or even 200s then 200s with 10 sec rest aren't going to maximize performance.I do my own workouts and almost all my swimming is either race pace or recovery.I think if you want to swim a good 200 you had better be doing training at your goal speed(broken 200s,100s at 200 pace etc.) Thanks, King Frog! I was just going to PM you a question asking your thoughts about this thread and how you train! :applaud:

i'll go out on a limb here..... i heard someone say (not to me) "just because you swim short events; doesn't make you a sprinter" Likewise, just finishing a 1500 (or a 5K or a 10K) is not at all the same thing as racing it. I think very few teams train to race, period. Cranking out lots of totally aerobic yardage is probably more helpful for me than for a sprinter, but the main training difference between the younger slower me and the older faster me is training with a group of racing-minded mid-distance and distance swimmers. We are not the majority of members on our team either, but we are numerous enough that the coach can justify giving us attention, and numerous enough to provide reliable workout partners.

I think Leslie's WRs can be attributed to many things, including: dedication and discipline. That being said I did wonder the same thing, "What is Leslie doing that the rest of us aren't?" Thank you for the kind words, Karen. I've been able to train a lot more as my kids have gotten older. Your time will come! As for the "what is she doing?" -- it's no secret! It's all on my USMS blog for the stealin'. In general, I think I tend to do things many masters dislike such as loads of kicking, nasty lactate sets, drylands and many hours of hot yoga and stretching. And I basically train 50/50, 50% in the pool and 50% on land. Personally, I like this sprinter regimen because the mega yardage/garbage yardage model led to burnout and shoulder problems in my age group days. As to Kirk's point, I agree that many masters who want to compete and swim fast may be training incorrectly for that purpose by omitting sufficient anaerobic training. Aside from the speed benefits, moreover, anaerobic training can actually lead to improved aerobic conditioning. If you want to race, you need to do race pace work. And that is not limited to us sprinters.

I guess my question was more for rhetorical purposes. LOL Your dry land compliments your swimming perfectly. A lot of dry land regimens that people do, don't. You just seem to have it all dialed in. As to "my time"? It has come and gone. I just regret not taking advantage of the great training opportunity I had (quit), and not choosing a better swimming college. For now, I'm doing the best I can with what I've got. CONGRATULATIONS again :agree: :chug:

I agree that "Wrong" implies that the only reason folks swim masters is to compete in sprint events. Most of the folks I swim with don't compete at swim meets and the coaches are usually aware of that and try to offer a variety of workouts over the course of the week that will satisfy the fitness swimmers and the competitors. I compete, but I'll admit to being a "garbage yardage" guy. Part of that is because that's the way we swam in the '80's and part is because I left the sport for 20+yrs and found out the hard way that sprinting without getting injured is a lot harder at 40+y.o. than it was at 20. I might be wrong, but I don't have as many injuries this year, so I'm happier even if I am wrong. (Of course, I'm also not nearly as fast as most of those who post here.) So, until I am able to finish 10x100 @ 1:15 (or 1:05) I'm satisfied with grinding out garbage yards most of the time and doing sprint sets once a week - more leading up to a meet. Is it going to take me longer to get faster? Sure, but if I get injured, it could take even longer.

If you want to race, you need to do race pace work. And that is not limited to us sprinters. Completely agree. Upon further thought, I also think that another reason that many masters don't, won't, or can't train to race is that some of the physiologic stress from athletic training is cumulative with other stress. If you are working a demanding or unrewarding job, and a relative is old or ill, and your kids are acting up or out, it's easy to become overtrained even if your workout regimen builds in what should be adequate recovery, just because the other stress in your life is not letting up when you are supposed to be recovering. If stress relief is a major reason for swimming, keeping to the low-intensity aerobic work is probably exactly right, not wrong at all.