yesterday I swam a 1500 to get a sign up time. it's been nearly 6 months since i have swam anything over 400m. I had no idea how I should swim it, or how it would feel during. took off way too fast 1:15, then 2:25 at the 200 and 5:20 at the 400. but then averaged about 1:25-1:26 for the rest and ended upw ith 21:10.
it got me thinking about a 5km run. I don't run, but it seems that almost every spring I decide it's time to start and i do run 3-5 times and I always use a 5km as a test/goal distance.
my goal for the 1500 in 3 weeks is to be under 20:00 so I have 3 weeks to learn how to hold a 1:20 pace, as well as to prepare mentally how it feels to swim that long. but I find it funny that my goal for the 5km has also been to run it under 20:00
anyone else have similar times for the 1500 and 5km? (1650yd vs 3 miles)
I think it's mostly in your stroke technique! With = conditioning my 5K pr when i was a runner was 18:32. I've probably trained physically harder in swimming and the best I've done is 24:04.
Or your running technique!
I loved to run but was just terrible. I have never run a 5K for time except at the end of a sprint tri (have done 10K, half-marathon, full marathon) but at my absolute running peak I was thrilled to go under 2 hours for a half-marathon and would have been stunned to break 24 minutes for 5K. By contrast, my 1500m PR (long course) is just under 20:00.
Former Member
My 5K run is 20% faster than my pool 1650.
My open water 1500 with a wetsuit is only 4% slower than my 5K.
Those world records are crazy fast.
Former Member
World Records
Men's Swimming: 1500M LCM 14:34 / 14:10 SCM
WOmen's Swimming: 1500M LCM 15:42 / 15:28 SCM
Men's Track: 5000M 12:37
Women's Track: 14:11
Presumably you should be about 10% slower in the swim than the run.
The Men's 5000M record is absurd.
Former Member
Slug for what it is worth, I am pretty involved in the production of triathlons and (sadly), I can tell you that the swim at most triathlons are short. Favorable current aside, if a lot of people are swimming the open water 1500 in less than 19:00 at just about any triathlon, the distance is short.
The production company I am affiliated with has a reputation of having "long" swims. In reality our distance are accurate but people are accustom to short swims.
It makes sense that the swim would be the least accurately measured part of the race. I've definitely noticed a lack of consistency in the "feel" of triathlon swim distances over the years, even the same race from year to year. Of course, even if the swim is accurately measured you still have other variables like sighting, drafting, current, and interference from other swimmers. Those are what make open water swimming so much fun!
Former Member
My 5K run is 20% faster than my pool 1650.
My open water 1500 with a wetsuit is only 4% slower than my 5K.
Those world records are crazy fast.
Slug for what it is worth, I am pretty involved in the production of triathlons and (sadly), I can tell you that the swim at most triathlons are short. Favorable current aside, if a lot of people are swimming the open water 1500 in less than 19:00 at just about any triathlon, the distance is short.
The production company I am affiliated with has a reputation of having "long" swims. In reality our distance are accurate but people are accustom to short swims.
Former Member
World Records
Men's Swimming: 1500M LCM 14:34 / 14:10 SCM
WOmen's Swimming: 1500M LCM 15:42 / 15:28 SCM
Men's Track: 5000M 12:37
Women's Track: 14:11
Presumably you should be about 10% slower in the swim than the run.
The Men's 5000M record is absurd.
Then I'm not as good at running as I thought.
In my 30's 5K 18:39, 1650 16:59
In my 40's 5K 18:52, 1650 17:44
I've always thought that swimming freestyle and track running have close to a 1:4 ratio--that is, the world's best swimmers can cover about one-fourth the distance as the world's best runners can in the same time.
Running records:
200 m Progression 19.19 (-0.3 m/s) Usain Bolt Jamaica
400 m Progression 43.18 Michael Johnson
800 m Progression 1:41.01 David Rudisha
Compare this to the Swimming records for 1/4th the distance. Swimming one-fourth the distance is still a little bit slower, but the gap seems to be closing by the 200 m.
50 m freestyle 20.91 César Cielo
100 m freestyle 46.91 César Cielo
200 m freestyle 1:42.00 Paul Biedermann
The SCY records are:
50 free 18.47 César Cielo (Auburn)
100 free 40.92 César Cielo (Auburn)
200 free 1:31.83 Dave Walters (Texas)
So anyhow, the 1500 m (or 1650 yard) swim would be roughly equivalent to a 6000 m run (or 6600 yard run). Correct me if my math is wrong here, but:
1500/6000 = x/5000; x = 1250 meters. 1250/1500 = the conversion factor, or roughly 83 percent.
So...Bottom line: Take your swimming time for the 1500 m or 1650 yards and multiply it by 83 percent, and you should have a reasonably accurate "equivalency goal" for your 5K running time, that is, if your swimming and running abilities are comparable.
PS I would be honored if you would, in all future discussion of this topic, refer to the 83 percent conversion factor as simply the Thornton Coefficient.
Let us test it out on Lefty's stats:
Men's Swimming: 1500M LCM 14:34 (874 seconds)
Men's Track: 5000M 12:37 (757 seconds)
83 percent of 874 seconds is 725 seconds.
Not perfect, but not bad. Only 4 percent off. Who knows? If the 1500 m swim had been a straight shot in open water instead of assisted by wall pushoffs, the times might be identical.
well I managed to swim my 1500 in 20:00.36 so I guess I have my work cut out for me if I am going to run a 5km under 20 this summer.
1:13.46
2:31.37 (1:17.91)
3:50.22 (1:18.85)
5:09.11 (1:18.89)
6:28.83 (1:19.72)
7:48.79 (1:19.93)
9:08.40 (1:19.61)
10:29.67 (1:21.79) around 750 I stopped thinking about my turns
11:50.43 (1:20.76)
13:11.97 (1:21.48)
14:33.50 (1:21.53)
15:55.35 (1:21.85) looked at the lapcounter and spent a 50 doing simple math in my head
17:18.85 (1:23.5) figured out I only had 200 left and started to pick up the pace
18:40.56 (1:21.71)
20:00.36 (1:19.8)
This was my first 1500m ever in a pool. Next time my goal will be to open around 10:30 like this time, but then to stay mentally alert of all my turns, streamlines off the wall. and see if I can't get down around 19:50.
For the first 750 I took my first stroke out at the flags (5m) without really trying. Something just clicked around 750 and fell back into my old routine.
well I managed to swim my 1500 in 20:00.36 so I guess I have my work cut out for me if I am going to run a 5km under 20 this summer.
1:13.46
2:31.37 (1:17.91)
3:50.22 (1:18.85)
5:09.11 (1:18.89)
6:28.83 (1:19.72)
7:48.79 (1:19.93)
9:08.40 (1:19.61)
10:29.67 (1:21.79) around 750 I stopped thinking about my turns
11:50.43 (1:20.76)
13:11.97 (1:21.48)
14:33.50 (1:21.53)
15:55.35 (1:21.85) looked at the lapcounter and spent a 50 doing simple math in my head
17:18.85 (1:23.5) figured out I only had 200 left and started to pick up the pace
18:40.56 (1:21.71)
20:00.36 (1:19.8)
Two items for your consideration, Mr. Rynko:
1. I see you live in Sweden. Did you ever meet any of the fellows in the wonderful documentary film, Men Who Swim?
2. Though you beat me by around 4 seconds (I swam the 1650 in 20:03.90), so technically I have no business advising you, I would like to point out that there is another way to swim the distance that might let you do a better time in the future while suffering less pain.
You swam in a meters pool, so the splits aren't entirely comparable, but the basic idea is that you started off fast and progressively slowed down till a little resurgence at the end.
I started off slowly and negative split pretty much the whole thing:
Leg Cumulative Subtractive
1 34.85 34.85
2 1:13.66 38.81
3 1:52.57 38.91
4 2:31.45 38.88
5 3:09.96 38.51
6 3:48.15 38.19
7 4:26.16 38.01
8 5:04.07 37.91
9 5:42.01 37.94
10 6:19.86 37.85
11 6:57.06 37.20
12 7:33.92 36.86
13 8:10.76 36.84
14 8:47.65 36.89
15 9:24.23 36.58
16 10:00.75 36.52
17 10:37.02 36.27
18 11:13.48 36.46
19 11:49.72 36.24
20 12:25.99 36.27
21 13:02.22 36.23
22 13:38.45 36.23
23 14:14.86 36.41
24 14:50.92 36.06
25 15:26.74 35.82
26 16:02.49 35.75
27 16:38.18 35.69
28 17:13.63 35.45
29 17:48.82 35.19
30 18:23.98 35.16
31 18:59.38 35.40
32 19:33.53 34.15
33 20:03.90 30.37
For really extraordinary younger swimmers, going fast the whole way without too much regard to pacing is probably the way to go. But the older you get--I'm now 58--the more I am convinced that performance in longer events is much more dependent on good strategy and pacing than brute endurance.
A young fellow in my heat was a little ahead of me till the 650 mark. I had no sense I was speeding up, but suddenly I couldn't see him anymore, and I assumed he had take the lead.
He actually dropped way behind, the victim of over-enthusiasm at the beginning.
Live and learn!
Using Thorton's coefficient:
If your running your 5k's @20 min then 1.5 km swim should be ~ 16:35 if your dist swimming is as strong as your running
Thanks, Steve, for being the first person besides me to use what I profoundly hope will one day become a much bandied-about household phrase:
The Thornton Coefficient
How mellifluously it rolls off the tongue to charm the ears of any and all within its sonic orbit!
Thanks!
Please accept my appology, I incorrectly applied the formula
5k's @ 20 min = 1.5 km ~ 24:00 LCM
actually i was rigt in post 20 and changed it here incorrectly. Probably explains the C's I recieved in college math
