I just finished an article I've been working on for quite some time on the subject of male blowhardery, political and religious rancor, and the various other items, from the sublime to the trivial, that so often provoke fits of moral outrage and antler cracking in our boneheaded gender. Not that women do not also indulge themselves here. But we guys, I think, are particularly vulnerable to being sucked into the bonfires of righteous rage.
All of this, I should add, preceded the recent "Troubles" (to borrow the Irish term) on our beloved forums.
I have heard whispers here and there that there may be some high ranking members in the powers that be who are openly urging the abolishment of these very forums so many of us enjoy so dearly!
Please, do not get me wrong here: I am not trying to stoke yet another conflagration of righteous rage, and I doubt seriously that our forums are truly imperiled.
However, I also think that it might make sense to consider, at least, some options for enhancing civility in what is already a generally quite civil forum (especially when compared with some of the other snark tanks out there.)
Two modest proposal for your consideration:
1. Encourage as many of us here as possible to use their real names as user names, and perhaps even enable these to be hyperlinked to the swimmer's "swimmer info page." Not only would this reduce the anonymity that provides cover to snarky comments (caution: this classic cartoon may offend some of you so click the link advisedly: www.penny-arcade.com/.../ ), but it would also allow us to actually get to know each other better.
2. I recall when various off-topic threads became enough of a problem that we instituted the NSR section of these forums. This has proven to be a pretty effective way to keep the main forum focus on swimming. People who want to discuss other topics now have a way to do so that doesn't bother swimming purists more interested in, say, the latest repairs for SLAP lesions or breathing patterns for distance events. Both the swimming and NSR forums, to be sure, are still expected to be civil and avoid the kinds of topics that so frequently lead to flame wars. With the demise of the technical suits, I fear we have lost the last and best source of swimming-related flame material out there. Naturally, those of us in the species Homo capitis iratus will almost always find new sources to go off on.
Hence my second proposal--a "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" solution. Add one more discussion area, tentative title The Wild West (unless, that is, our California brethren find this offensive), in which anything goes. This third forum should prominently post an "enter at your own risk" warning, along with the standard boilerplate about tolerating nothing criminal, etc. But other than such bare bones proscriptions, posters in The Wild West would be free to post anything they want about anything they want.
I suspect that after an initial flurry of rubbernecking, boredom would set in (spittle-dappled blather gets old quickly), and the audience for The Wild West would start to drop. At the risk of re-offending anybody with this cartoon-- take a second look if you dare! www.penny-arcade.com/.../ -- you will notice that having an audience, under the catalysis of anonymity, is critical in the conversion of an average normal guy into, well, I think I shall let the cartoon speak for what this conversion leads to.
So, what say ye all?
Real name postings?
The Wild West?
Both?
Neither?
Former Member
As far as using real names, I imagine people have their reasons if they don't and I respect that. I am just not creative enough to come up with a good fake name...
I've grown somewhat attached to my fake name, although I do plan to change it one day when I fix my stroke and break a preconceived, essentially meaningless time barrier that I've set for myself :D
When that time comes (this year maybe?) I will have to come up with a suitably creative, but different name.
Yes, he is nice in person. I spoke with him at a number of meets. And I don't believe he "liked to incite" people, at least I don't think he did it purposefully. Some people just happened to get incited for various reasons while interacting with him.:chug:
Ah, Ion! We hardly knew ye. Rich and I, along with Ian Smith and some other nice swimmers, had dinner with Ion in Cleveland the summer they held LCM Nationals at Cleveland State. He really was a nice fellow in person.
I have a theory that the Internet is frequently the shortest conduit to the id.
Oh, how I yearn for yonder days, in the 1990s, when you could post anonymously to Runnersworld.com (except for the main guy, the "moderator". who knew your thingie address.) I once posted as Camille Paglia and a girl actually welcomed Camille and did not know that I, Camille Paglia the writer (google her) was a runner, she also did not know that Camille Paglia probably ignores the existence of the magazine. The fights got nasty, and they invented the "rants" for posting flame stuff. Eventually they denied access to anonymous and I talked to the moderator, a nice guy, Parker Morse, and he told me they were afraid of litigation and suits and so forth. I was younger and angrier and could pick a fight or throw a hook, provoke, and sit here in Brazil hurling insults all over the RW Forums. Only merited insults. A couple of guys threatened to go personally and visit some enemy and have a real fight! Those of you who were runners remember well this I am talking about, between 1996 and 1999. Cool Running was worse. I posted as Alexandra Paul, and complained that everyone doubted my athletic abilities, even though she (not I) had completed the San Diego Marathon, and ran some Iron Mans. That was a cute athlete, in that beach life guard series, with the other cutie, the canadian girl with big boobs. Enough of reminiscing. I won't mention the big, huge flame wars that I had with other m.ds and professors of anesthesiology and intensive care on an international list. I would throw the bait, get beaten up, and wait for the ivory tower guys to come to the rescue. silly billy fanstone (my signature, after I was called that by a now deceased professor from Australia.
Ah, silly billy fanstone! We all have some silly billy in is, I suspect.
By the way, I had a friend in graduate school who had an affair with Camille while she (my friend) was an undergraduate at Bennington.
Or maybe I dreamed this.
In any event, my id remembers it fondly.
The fact that anesthesiologists can have flame wars over, say, how much Versed to give a person, or the relative merits of laughing gas vs. a hammer blow to the head, just further proves that guys will fight with extreme prejudice about anything under the sun!
All for the attention of Camille! Who, of course, only has eyes for Ursula.*
*not her real name, just in case I really did dream about the affair.
My online persona tends toward chaotic neutral regardless of whether I use my name. Plenty of you know who I am anyway. :thewave:
Edit: BTW, there's a somewhat less offensive version of the cartoon that Jim linked. And it's a T-shirt. store.penny-arcade.com/.../pat070381
Oh, how I yearn for yonder days, in the 1990s, when you could post anonymously to Runnersworld.com (except for the main guy, the "moderator". who knew your thingie address.) I once posted as Camille Paglia and a girl actually welcomed Camille and did not know that I, Camille Paglia the writer (google her) was a runner, she also did not know that Camille Paglia probably ignores the existence of the magazine. The fights got nasty, and they invented the "rants" for posting flame stuff. Eventually they denied access to anonymous and I talked to the moderator, a nice guy, Parker Morse, and he told me they were afraid of litigation and suits and so forth. I was younger and angrier and could pick a fight or throw a hook, provoke, and sit here in Brazil hurling insults all over the RW Forums. Only merited insults. A couple of guys threatened to go personally and visit some enemy and have a real fight! Those of you who were runners remember well this I am talking about, between 1996 and 1999. Cool Running was worse. I posted as Alexandra Paul, and complained that everyone doubted my athletic abilities, even though she (not I) had completed the San Diego Marathon, and ran some Iron Mans. That was a cute athlete, in that beach life guard series, with the other cutie, the canadian girl with big boobs. Enough of reminiscing. I won't mention the big, huge flame wars that I had with other m.ds and professors of anesthesiology and intensive care on an international list. I would throw the bait, get beaten up, and wait for the ivory tower guys to come to the rescue. silly billy fanstone (my signature, after I was called that by a now deceased professor from Australia.
I think the question of what comes up under your name when people google you is a reasonable reason to use a screen name. About 10 years ago, I wrote a scathing review on Amazon of a comic book using my real name. I am not afraid to stand behind the review (and there is even a US Senator who reviews comics on Amazon), but for a while, when patients would google my name (which everyone does) high up on the list was that review. It came up a few times and I always felt strange.
Seems like there a lot of people here with forum names but many people know who they are -- seems like a decent compromise.
I saw this article on Slate today:
www.slate.com/.../
There are some good points (and even a reference to the same link that Jim made).
Although the general assumption here is "commenting on a posted article by a public author" rather than a free-for-all forum such as ours, there may be something to this point. If you make an opinion -- sometimes a pretty strong one -- public, shouldn't you declare yourself?
Is a little loss of privacy a good exchange for an increase in civility? I think the forum is usually a pretty civil place but I also haven't been involved in serious heated back & forth, personal attacks. In other words, others might have a pretty good reason to disagree with me on the level of civility here.
Chris, you've touched on a fascinating topic. The Slate article mentions how easy it is to create fake personas for purposes of writing anonynous comments, fake reviews, etc., but they don't know the half of it. The fake opinion business is scaling up to fake consensus via persona management software.
www.dailykos.com/.../-UPDATED:-The-HB-Gary-Email-That-Should-Concern-Us-All
Terrified yet? :afraid: Anyway to get back on topic, trying to get rid of anonymity on the USMS forums by turning on "real names" wouldn't accomplish a whole lot since on the internet, the pool has already been thoroughly peed in, and it's only going to get worse.
I've grown somewhat attached to my fake name, although I do plan to change it one day.
So when you change your name can I have it? I love it! It's exactly how I feel sometimes. . . :)
I'm glad the powers that be are looking into this issue. Several years ago I raised similar questions about the tone of this board, and I received several private e-mails from other USMS board participants who felt the same way. I also decided, when I was met with what I recall as derisive, public comments from some who are participating in this very thread, to drop my USMS membership altogether.
I think USMS should be trying to reach out to and encourage participation by a greater share of the "swimming community" (yes, that's a rather loosely defined group, but a shared interested would seem to bind folks together nonetheless), and the board should be serving that purpose more effectively. Having people post in their real names might help to keep in check the ego-gratifying and disrespectful excesses that seem to have permeated this board.
