Rules I'd like to see repealed

There are many arbitrary, idiotic rules, and not allowing lap counters for little kids is one of them. And just because a rule is a rule, doesn't mean it's not stupid. I'll split the baby with you. Allow counters on any distance but no parents on deck. How about that? I agree that a meet director should use as much tact as possible.

I like a good old fashioned disagreement. In the unlikely event I was at this meet and not officiating and saw some parent counting for their kid in a 200 I would have immediately raised a stink. It isn't about the kid it benefits as much as about the other kids who it may distract. If I was officiating the meet I would also have DQ'd the swimmer, sorry, them be the rules. It doesn't matter if a rule is perceived as a technicality, it is a rule and should be enforced. Technically, every rule is a technicality. Now, if the meet officials had offered counting for all kids I would have been fine with it. But, the times would not be counted for those that used a counter since it does violate a few rules. I would be interested in pwolf's view on this. Yes, I agree the rule has to be enforced for fairness. And I'm sure Wolfy would say the same. But that doesn't stop it from being a dumb rule or the official from having perhaps been a little too eager-anal in discharging his duty. Sounds like he could have presented it in a more reasonable, less officious-in-your-face, kind of way. I volunteer to do this stuff because you must volunteer if your kid is swimming. But I have to say I don't enjoy it that much because sometimes people feel compelled to act like idiots.

Comments on lap counters. My daughter started her 200 Free career at the age of 9 by stopping at the 150 mark and ended her competition in the 9-10 age group at Junior Olympics by, you guessed it, stopping at the 150 mark. But since then she has never even contemplated stopping. The first time any of my swimmers swim the 200 free, I fully expect them to stop at the 150 mark. It's a less than desirable result but it's part of the experience and most of them that stop the first time, rarely stop again. As for the official, did they truly 'corner' you as represented? It's possible, I've met some very over-bearing officials but they have been very few and very far between. Most (99+%) are very nice folks doing a tough but necessary job (for FREE!!!! in 99.9% of cases) for the benefit of the kids and the sport. They are there to ensure two things for the swimmers, a safe and equitible competitive environment. And to do that, they must have a set of rules that are enforced for every swimmer. True, the violation should have been noted and enforced when it occurred, I put that one on the deck ref/admin ref. But it is a rule, it is published and it is (should) be enforced. Should it be changed? I don't think so. All it takes is to count past three and you're finished (count the returns to the start end). What next, using a lap counter for 100s? Where does it stop? I was just at mini-meet where it was 25 free and a swimmer finished the 25 and turned and swam back. Should there have been a lap counter with the double orange there? Lap counters are a convienance for the swimmers but that convienance has to be measured against the additional logistics of having up to 8 people at the turn end for every race that is allowed to use lap counters. Then having those people swap in and out, etc. Then the expense of having to have lap counters available at EVERY meet that has races where lap counters are allowed to be used. In the context of a single USA-S meet on a single weekend, that's not that expensive. Now increase that to 2-3 USA-S meets per weekend for a small geographical area. Then add in the YMCA meets on those same weekends. Add in high school meets, etc.....Most ideas sound great in the micro but become economically or logistically unsupportable in the macro. Electronic timing systems for summer league meets is another example of great in micro but horrible in macro. In my area that would require FORTY-THREE sets of pads, computer, software, cables etc just for our county's league. Not to mention spare parts, etc. Also in my experience, lap counters should never be used for races shorter than 500 (400 LCM) because a vast majority of the younger kids swimming have no clue what they mean. The ones that would need a lap counter, typically don't understand it's porpose and the more experienced swimmers would no longer need the counter. Should younger kids swim 200s? My opinion is that not until they are 8-9 years old (or have been swimming year round for at least 2 years). Once they get a little more cognizant of thier environment, then they 'get' the lap counter's purpose. Most of them still only know what the double-orange means. Just my thoughts

I agree. I think counting should be optional for all events. If someone needs a counter for a 50, go for it. If I don't want a counter for a 1650, that should be fine, too. And yet the counters would have to be made AVAILABLE at ALL times. So for a dual-course meet, that means there would have to be 16 lap counters available. Ugh. No thanks. Keep the rule as is, that way meet directors only have certain meets that would require counters to be available.

I volunteer to do this stuff because you must volunteer if your kid is swimming. But I have to say I don't enjoy it that much because sometimes people feel compelled to act like idiots. As long as we are making up rules, here are a few new ones I'd like to see created: 1. For every 8 hours of officiating, you are allowed to DQ one crazy parent. The parent would have to go sit in their car with the windows down (Winter) or up (Summer) until the meet is over. 2. Any family that has specialty family t-shirts made has to donate them to the circus after one meet. 3. A coach that doesn't high-five or hug his 8/unders after their events should be reprimanded by having to wear a wookiee fur coat. 4. Alcohol should be served at all meets.

And just because a rule is a rule, doesn't mean it's not stupid. But just because you think it's stupid, doesn't mean it's not in place for a very valid reason.

1. For every 8 hours of officiating, you are allowed to DQ one crazy parent. The parent would have to go sit in their car with the windows down (Winter) or up (Summer) until the meet is over. 2. Any family that has specialty family t-shirts made has to donate them to the circus after one meet. 3. A coach that doesn't high-five or hug his 8/unders after their events should be reprimanded by having to wear a wookiee fur coat. 4. Alcohol should be served at all meets. 1) Yes 2) Meh, we just point, laugh and take thier lunch money :angel: 3) Oh heck yeah. 4) I wish but then I get the drunken, nightmare sports parents. :afraid:

And yet the counters would have to be made AVAILABLE at ALL times. So for a dual-course meet, that means there would have to be 16 lap counters available. I don't think I've ever attended a meet (when I was 11 or older) where there wasn't at least one event requiring counters, so odds are if you're hosting a meet you need the counters anyway. One problem I could see, though, is if you allow counters for 200s you'd presumably need to allow them for stroke events as well as freestyle. The turn judges are going to have a harder time judging if there's a whole gaggle standing at the turn end and thrusting lap counters in and out of the water.

One problem I could see, though, is if you allow counters for 200s you'd presumably need to allow them for stroke events as well as freestyle. The turn judges are going to have a harder time judging if there's a whole gaggle standing at the turn end and thrusting lap counters in and out of the water. It would be a disaster to have counters for all free events. Having counters adds to the timeline significantly. Kids should learn to count to 2, 4, 8 and 16. It's not that hard. They do it in practice every day of the week, why not a meet?

I don't understand why it would add to the timeline. My suggestion was to make counters optional. There would be no time wasted to make sure counters were in place. Heats would start just like normal. The starter wouldn't check or even need to comment on whether or not counters were present.