Burnout in 17 year old club swimmer

Other than a brief tryout for track one year (when I was cut), I didn't do a single sport in my entire high school experience. That said, I'm in far better shape today than any person who I went to high school with and know today (for real, Facebook, etc) who did. The high school had one of the best swim teams in the state, but the guys and gals are so burned out that not a single one swims at all today (I've been trying to convince some to come back). Your current state of fitness has nothing to do with the value or benefits of high school sports teams, or college teams either. To counter your experience every person I train with in the sports I enjoy was either a high school or college athlete, both males and females. Sports is about a lot more than the actual sport itself.

Students that study hard to get good grades are not messed up. They are people that want to do well and they take pride in what they are doing as well. Calling them "messed up" is an insult to the students that work hard everyday. Then again, jazz doesn't believe in swimming either to get faster, so I shouldn't be shocked that he thinks students shouldn't study hard either. :blah: How long has it been since you were in high school? Do you remember what kind of hard work it was? I remember: not the kind that was interesting or worth being proud of. Most of the time, anyway. In high school, I wasn't interested in doing things just because authority figures told me to. I got bad grades, but somehow I ended up not stupid, kind of like how I "don't swim" but when I do I'm still faster than you. Geek put it perfectly: Good grades = good university/vocation = good/more job or career opportunities = better life for you and your offspring, if you want kids. Smart kids use grades to get what they want (although a lot of them think they need better grades than they actually need). I'm fine with that. A lot of my friends were like that. The messed up ones were the ones who got intrinsic pleasure from the whole thing.

I swam with someone in college who was burned out. She cut way back on practices and just allowed herself a year of not being so intense. Amusingly, she ended up swimming just as fast at the end of the year. I think your son might benefit from something similar. Sometimes we type-A people need to learn how to not be so intense all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if he still swam fast and had a lot more fun if he allowed himself to relax a little. Either way, as much as I love swimming, your son's initiative to take 5 AP classes (not to mention his abilities) is awesome. That's going to take him far, no matter what...

:blah: How long has it been since you were in high school? Do you remember what kind of hard work it was? I remember: not the kind that was interesting or worth being proud of. Most of the time, anyway. In high school, I wasn't interested in doing things just because authority figures told me to. I got bad grades, but somehow I ended up not stupid, kind of like how I "don't swim" but when I do I'm still faster than you. Geek put it perfectly: Smart kids use grades to get what they want (although a lot of them think they need better grades than they actually need). I'm fine with that. A lot of my friends were like that. The messed up ones were the ones who got intrinsic pleasure from the whole thing. Nice back tracking on calling kids messed up that study hard. Yea, I remember how hard hs was at the time. Going to a private school, where I had 4-5 hours of homework a night that wasn't AP's plus practices in the morning and evening wasn't a cake walk. Working hard to get good grades isn't something messed up people do. It's something people do who do a job,task,etc. that want to be proud of the effort put forth. Yea, you are faster than me in 50's, that's not something to brag about, since the majority of people are faster than me in 50's.

Smart kids use grades to get what they want (although a lot of them think they need better grades than they actually need). I'm fine with that. A lot of my friends were like that. The messed up ones were the ones who got intrinsic pleasure from the whole thing. Count me as another one who doesn't think that it's a negative thing to take pride in grades. To a large extent (one variable being how good a test taker a person is and how easily one grasps the material, of course), grades are a measure of how much effort the student has put forth. To base one's self-worth on grades -- yes, that kid probably has issues (as does the swimmer who places his/her self-worth entirely on times). To enjoy seeing results of work put in -- that's motivating.

Oohhhh I went through this so many times. I do not mean to criticize your point of view since it is a valid one. No doubt. However, when pushing the thinking to the limit, as far as you can get, philosophically speaking, you end up with the following dilema: - Should we risk individuals to be destroyed, for the sake of the team, in an individual sport such as swimming? My answer: No. In fact, we should never take this risk. Ask the question to another coach, the answer might differ. It's really a matter of philosophy more than physiology or even team management. A good team can certainly live despite a few accommodations and exceptions. There are 2 reasons why I think this way. 1) I am old (and fortunate) enough to have survived a full generational cycle. I coached 10yo kids which I was fortunate to meet 15 years later. 2) I have witness some of these accommodations. They generally work great. A lot of swimmers, including kids, swim way too much. So the possibility truly exists, that the OP's kid starts to perform even better on a leaner swim diet. In fact, the best youth I have ever seen (51.6 over 100m at age 15) was on such a diet. No swim in the morning, no swim during the weekend. Therefore he was training 5 times per week, afternoons. But, But.... You'd ask this guy a 100% effort, believe me, you'd get 110%. Sadly, he had to struggle very often to keep his status within the team, precisely because some would start to question the message sent to the rest of the team. The kids you coached were lucky to have you. My son's 100m free isn't what your swimmer's was, but his coach has the same philosophy as you do. As a matter of fact, that's one of the many things we like so much about the coach. He sees each kid as an individual, and treats them as such. As a result, morale is generally quite high. The coach makes allowances for individual situations... but when the kids are there, he expects nothing but their best efforts. I’ll undoubtedly “Catch all the thunder in the world” for saying this, but if your son is having a problem fitting time for being on the swim team into his academic schedule, he (and you as well) should consider dropping after school sports altogether so he can concentrate on school (and preparation for employment). The current “recession” (more like a “Depression”) is hanging on like 7 year itch and the employment market is getting more brutal by the day. As the famous career counselor Marty Nemco said on his talk radio show (on KGO San Francisco) “When you go out looking for a job, employers don’t give a damn about your school’s gym or sports program”. Just for everyone’s info, here’s Marty’s career site: http://www.martynemko.com/ However I agree that allowing him to participate in an athletic activity is a good idea and as a previous poster said, he could take fitness swimming or W-polo during the regular 1 hour P.E. class. :agree: Good luck – D2 It's not so much an issue of fitting his work in, as his grades are good, but he is missing sleep over it. I think he was headed towards stress-related problems. He's 17 and his grades have always been high, so my husband and I feel that he has earned the privilege to make his own decisions regarding swimming. If his grades were to slip, he would no longer have that privilege and would not be able to be on the team. Thanks for posting the link. I will definitely take a look.

Trying to find a balance I think is key. Now I know why you psychiatrists make the big bucks... :) :bolt:

Uh, nobody enjoys AP classes. They're more fun if you're aiming for a C, but I would bet Subject isn't doing that. As for being proud of grades, those are a measurement of obedience. Only the messed up kids are proud of that. Here's how it works in America. Good grades = good university/vocation = good/more job or career opportunities = better life for you and your offspring, if you want kids. I enjoyed AP classes. I then enjoyed going to school as a sophomore which gave me an extra year to take non core classes, and drink beer.

I also think Jazz is right that you don't take AP courses because you enjoy them. So, the student who excels in math and AP is the next math level course offered as a junior or senior should not take it because, why? I fail to understand the objections to pushing yourself academically. Why bother to push yourself academically at all?

I can relate very well to your son's experience. I also worked very hard in swimming as a teen (with someone you know, I think), but was never better than "best of the rest." I could have swum at my strongly academic college, and I often wonder how my life would have been different if I had. But I could see that I was never going to be an Olympian or even a scholarship athlete, and I was tired of working so hard and so many hours at something that I did not excel at, and I wanted the chance to try some other activities that I could either be better at or be mediocre with less work. So I dropped swimming at 16 and picked it up again at 27. I think the unrealistic expectations are realistic for his age, though. At my age, good health and the opportunity to socialize through sports are so valuable that I can enjoy swimming regardless of each season's achievements. At his age, when he can take good health and socializing for granted, he probably looks around him and thinks quite reasonably, "why am I working so hard to be average?" Especially if he is good at school, and is an academic superstar through the perfect combination of hard work and talent, the comparison with swimming is probably very powerful in his head. Later in life, though, he'll realize that swimming taught him some very useful skills, including how to enjoy exercise and how to persevere and improve even at something that does not start out easy. As long as he continues to do something for recreation and fitness, it doesn't seem as if you and he can make a wrong decision. Great post with great insight. This is exactly my son's situation, and I'm sure it applies to many swimmers who are better students. As a 22 years H S swim coach ,I saw this all the time! 5 AP 's are the culprit. He & you must decide if he will be a burned out , over stressed kid that looks for another way out in a not so good way ? ! I have counseled many kids to keep swimming & cut back on the "I must be perfect or my parents ,coach, counselor will not like me idea ! ! ! I've thought and am concerned about the possibility of him finding unhealthy ways of relieving stress. While I do agree that the 5 AP classes may be too heavy of a load, he is an academic kid and has always enjoyed challenging himself. I would have preferred that he take 3-4 AP classes, but this was his call. We've always emphasized that school comes first, but have also promoted physical activity as a way to stay healthy physically and mentally. It just doesn't have to be at the commitment level that he is doing now. He's the kind of kid who has always put a lot of pressure on himself, and we try not to add to that. He may perceive that we do, though. Re: the 5 AP classes,how much time does he spend on homework and does he like the classes.The reason I ask is that AP doesn't necessarily make it harder.For some people, classes that keep ones interest are "easier" than classes that are not challenging,uninteresting, or just plain boring. The homework load is a bit heavier than it has been in previous years, as is the subject matter. He is doing homework and/or studying for 3-4 hours per night. If he didn't have over three hours per day (including travel) committed to swim, it wouldn't be such an issue. However, I worry about the one-dimensionality of a solely academic schedule. This seems like weird advice. Kristen's son sounds like a typical type A intellectual swimmer who likely puts demands and pressure on himself. (Correct me if I'm off base, Kristen.) And it's normal for teenagers to feel some stress in high school. That doesn't mean they shouldn't work hard. The worst option would seem to be to continue in a sport that could be making him unhappy (if that's the case). It can also be hard to cut back and embrace slower times -- who wants or can do that very well? On the other hand, I know our USAS team has a "high school prep" option that is for kids who aren't as serious about swimming. Perhaps cutting back or taking a break (while still staying fit from other exercise) would clarify things somewhat. Yep, Fort, that's him. Type A to the hilt. Seems to be common among kids who are attracted to sports with a strong individual component. And these are the kids who stress out the most over their decisions. The high school prep group sounds like our club's senior 2 group. That is definitely an option that he has considered. I hope you don't project this anti-intellectualism onto the kids you coach. This kid may enjoy taking hard classes and achieving strong academic results. He may enjoy the work he does in the classes more than he enjoys the work he does in the pool, and he may get more pride from his academic results than he does from his swimming results. If so, cutting swimming might be a good choice for him for now. He can always pick it up again if he decides he misses it, and unless he is a serious candidate for a college scholarship he won't have lost anything irreplaceable by pausing at 17 to think about how he wants to organize his limited and valuable time. Yes. He has always been an academic kid first and foremost. It's his comfort zone. He has always loved to learn, and is enjoying the challenge of his classes now (albeit frustrated with the homework load). He's much more likely to be a candidate for an academic scholarship than a swimming one. Frankly, I think there should be a sprinter option in more USAS programs. There is a volume intensive, anti-sprinter bias in most USAS training. Some kids would do just fine or even prosper in 50s and 100s on very little, but very quality, training. Burnout and time problem solved, for some. Our club has a sprinter lane in the National group, but nothing at the lower levels. Most of the sprinters end up swimming in the senior 2 group, as they use the easier intervals to work speed. Unfortunately, my son was "blessed" with my endurance genes. I disagree with this. My high school (and I'm sure most high schools) take the best kids for their sports. If every parent had this philosophy, obviously not all kids would be able to do every sport they and/or their parents want, simply because space wouldn't allow it. Other than a brief tryout for track one year (when I was cut), I didn't do a single sport in my entire high school experience. That said, I'm in far better shape today than any person who I went to high school with and know today (for real, Facebook, etc) who did. The high school had one of the best swim teams in the state, but the guys and gals are so burned out that not a single one swims at all today (I've been trying to convince some to come back). College admission officers, at least when I was looking, look for a variety of things. Participation in any high school activities, classes, as well as work experience all can be factors for admission. While I didn't do any sports, I was quite active with a variety of other extra curricular activities, took both several AP classes at the school and real college classes (my high school had arrangements with nearby colleges), as well as worked several jobs. I received partial scholarships (academic) at every school I applied to. I don't think anything was said about requiring that the kids be involved in an actual organized high school sport. Kids need to stay active -- just look at the obesity problem in kids nowadays. Kids who are active as teenagers are less likely to be obese now and later in life, not to mention the psychological benefits of exercise. While there are a number of people (you, and me as well) who became fit as adults, I don't believe that we're the norm. Most of the people on my masters team were age group swimmers at the least, and many were DI scholarship swimmers. It's important to encourage kids to be physically active on some level, and it's equally important for parents to walk the walk. Sorry for the long, quoted post, but there are a lot of great things being said here.