It looks like the Nationals in Puerto Rico were a lot of fun. The reports by Rob Butcher were great, the weather looked good, everyone said they had a great time.... but, let's face it, the swimming was slow. There were only 8 world records by men and 7 by women. I am not a stats guy, but I think that is the lowest number of world records at a Nationals LCM meet since I started Masters swimming in 2002.
We know why. We decided to disallow the old tech suits. They help us swim faster. Purists say that is why they were disallowed. No advantage should come to us from our "equipment" seems to be the mentality. Why not? If we applied the same mentality to Track and Field they would not use cleats, would run on cinder (or dirt), pole vaulters would be using bamboo or steel poles, etc. etc. The purist argument strikes me as lame.
How did this happen? After the Worlds (was it last year?) and Biedermann soundly beat Phelps in the 200 free Bowman began talking about holding Phelps out of meets as long as the Jaked and B70 type suits were allowed (he didn't seem to mind when Phelps had the latest tech suit in his LZR at the Olympics....). Lots of folks were fretting over all the new world records. People were paying a lot of attention to swimming. This was bad? I guess it seemed so to some and FINA (we don't really know all the pressures/threats that were brought to bear) decided to ban the "rubberized" tech suits and not allow men to cover their upper body.
Now, the older we get the more loose skin we have and the more resistance we create with our "flabs" in the water. Younger, elite swimmers may not have quite the same problem. US Masters Swimming could have decided that while FINA and US Swimming disallow the old tech suits, we Masters will allow them. What would happen? Actually, from time to time, we would have elite swimmmers drop in to compete in a Masters meet--for fun--to see how fast they could go in a full body tech suit. And that would be entertaining and exciting; plus, we'd still be swimming fast.
The argument that they cost too much is weak since all the suit companies selling the new legal racing jammers charge almost as much for jammers as they did for an entire body suit!
I think it's good for our sport that swimmers can age up and aim to break a world record. Sure, it's an "age-group" record but it feels good and it makes for an exciting meet when this is happening. This is much less likely now.
I love to swim and look forward to competing again but, to me, it just never made sense to disallow the equipment that let us swim faster. We will have to make do with the situation right now but let's not pretend we are swimming faster. We're not.
We all need to work on core body strength if we want to swim as fast as we did with the suits. Either way swimming is good and meets are fun.
I do believe 'World Records" are very special and really we shouldn't expect to see them blown away every year.
:2cents:That's Right!!!!! It's Masters Swimming - let's have some positive perspective:angel:
I know most contributors to the Forum don't agree with me but I felt like giving my opinion.
When the conversation at SPMA meets turns to legalizing the suits for SCY, I hear a lot of support, notwithstanding the negative "vote" by SPMA. In contrast, I hear little sympathy for the "romantic" vision of swimming purity that has been expressed by at least one coach. Maybe that's water down the drain. In any case, what matters most is: has USMS been affected?
The evidence so far is unscientific and unsystematic, but there are signs of declining participation. The LCM season's not done yet, and some times have not yet been recorded, but the USMS database for the 60-64 men's age group shows 132 swimmers with times in the 100 free this year and 153 last year; for 18-24, it shows 57 swimmers this year versus 70 last year. For the 100 LCM free in the men's 40-44 age group, the database shows 145 swimmers with times last year and 86 this year.
gshaw said
I flat out disagree with using the number of USMS/World records as a basis for comparison between Nationals. I respectively think the number of records has more to do with "who" shows up at the meet vs assessing how the people at the meet swam. I swam in Puerto Rico in jammers (not even high-tech jammers). My 50 free was 2 tenths faster than last summer wearing a body suit. My 200 fly was only 5 hundredths slower than my time from 2006 Worlds when I wore a bodysuit. My 50 back was only 6 one hundredths slower than 2006 Worlds. My 100 back was 2 tenths faster than 2006 Worlds. Blah blah blah. I'm only one data point .:
Wow. That's great and inspiring. When it comes to this kind of thing "one data point" makes a difference. Your 200 fly is the most inspiring. Okay, point well made. I will rethink this and know more after I try to race...
Wow. That's great and inspiring. When it comes to this kind of thing "one data point" makes a difference. Your 200 fly is the most inspiring. Okay, point well made. I will rethink this and know more after I try to race...
I think Jeff's experience undercuts Jim's notion that men will be dreadfully dreadfully effected, so much more than women, by the lack of a belly cover.
However, Jeff's 2006 times weren't rubber comparisons. But then he never used much "rubber" anyway. (Go ahead and cue jokes. :))
I would prefer to keep the suits for SCY. But, as everyone knows, I'm not a purist or a romantic.
I haven't been to a meet since SCY Nationals, but that's due principally to my vacation schedule. I know people both pro and con wrt the suits. I wonder if participation numbers are down to date just because of the PR venue as opposed to Indy though? Or it could be the suits ... I'm certainly not swimming the 200 back LC again without my suit ...
Chris knows far more about this sport than I and he is a hellofalot better swimmer, so I should probably defer to his opinion to "man up."
***
On a practical note, especially for really hairy guys, wearing a full body suit meant they didn't have to shave and go through the stubble trouble when it grows back. Of course, no one "has" to shave.
Last time I checked, you had a few of those world records yourself - anyone who can come back to swimming after 30 years and do what you have done is entitled to an opinion.
I have heard from a lot of swimmers that the biggest benefit of the long suits is not having to shave. I really never considered shaving for a master's meet until Indianapolis nationals. It seemed kind of silly for grown men to shave for a competition of limited importance. But, I did and was able to achieve my goals. (I did buy a blue70 on the last day of the meet and wore it for my 100 fly)
I don't think I will shave again until my next goal meet - which will probably be at my next age group change - maybe Torino in 2013. In the mean time, maybe FINA and USMS will modify the rules and make shaving unnecessary.
...The evidence so far is unscientific and unsystematic, but there are signs of declining participation. The LCM season's not done yet, and some times have not yet been recorded, but the USMS database for the 60-64 men's age group shows 132 swimmers with times in the 100 free this year and 153 last year; for 18-24, it shows 57 swimmers this year versus 70 last year. For the 100 LCM free in the men's 40-44 age group, the database shows 145 swimmers with times last year and 86 this year.
I don't think LCM racing numbers are a good measure for participation. Look at membership numbers and/or compare SCY season '10 to '11 versus SCY season '09 to '10. Also, as Fort notes below, Nationals participation is heavily location dependent, moreso in the summer.
...I wonder if participation numbers are down to date just because of the PR venue as opposed to Indy though? Or it could be the suits ... I'm certainly not swimming the 200 back LC again without my suit ...
Though the cat's out of the bag and I'm ready to race this fall in my endurance or endurance-like jammer, my vote would still be to bring back the tech suits, lock, stock and rubber barrel.
I thought they were illegal for any pool swims, but I could be wrong. Imagine struggling for an entire 10k in a jammer only to find your competitors were all floating along in a B70!
I thought they were illegal for any pool swims, but I could be wrong. Imagine struggling for an entire 10k in a jammer only to find your competitors were all floating along in a B70!
Jim,
You know people are going to wear cheating suits for the 5K/10K postals even though the entry form clearly states that they aren't allowed.
