Swim Myth #7.....busted

For "Freestyle"? "Freestyle" means you can swim any style you want (including breathing any way you want); except for the underwater rule of 15 yds/ 15 meters. Forumites, if I didn't get that right, I'm sure you'll let me know! ;) SW 5.3 covers the 15m submerged rule. The only thing I ever had to DQ someone for in free was for taking a step off the bottom of the pool. The only other time you can't swim freestyle any style you want is during a medley relay, in which you can only swim any stroke other than back, ***, and fly.

health.howstuffworks.com/.../sports-physiology.htm people.eku.edu/.../301notes6.htm Gary: a couple of thoughts, not mine originally. "The more I know, the less I know" or "the more I study, the more confused I get" and "what you believe in does not make it the truth". All these apply to me. Dang, I wish someone would clear this issue once and for all. I have been studying, asking other doctors, looking stuff up in the internet and there are still areas that are in the dark. For instance, it is well known that ATP lasts 8 to 10 seconds in the Phosphagen System, 90 seconds for the Glycogen-Lactic Acid System, and then indefinitely for the Aerobic System. So you could say that an exercise full out lasting less than a minute and a half would need no oxygen. That would cover most sprints in swimming. When going underwater with no breathing for over 25 meters, for instance, or swimming 50 and above with no breathing, is it the oxygen that is limiting us or is it the C02 drive? If you are told to go without breathing for a distance, don't you dose your speed with your time, i.e. the faster you go the sooner you will get there, but the faster you go, the more C02 builds up and makes you want to breathe. And lastly, there's an article that says C02 is not a factor in increasing respiratory rate in exercise, there are other factors. So now, I am back to zero, starting all over.

Slow billy fanstone coming out of a flip turn, needs to breathe real fast or else he will explode. If he blows less air out he lasts longer, but then he drowns with water ingested through his nose. Isn't this C02 buildup? And what limits some swimmers in their underwater dolphin kicks in the back and fly and free? Is it the oxygen lack or the C02 buildup? Why do I progressively lose my capacity to go further under water or further swimming without breathing, even if I do rest stops? Wouldn't the rest stops get my C02 normal? And my oxygen? Still confused. Plus, Noakes says you are born with most of your V02 Max, you can only make it better by 15% with training....billy fanstone

Swimming a 50, you dont have to breathe and it is easy to keep streamline when you are not taking a breath. No need for ATP and Oxygen a 50 takes between 22 t0 28 seconds or slightly more depending on your speed.

There is also a phenomenon I have observed in my self that leads me to believe there is a psychological component.If I swim a 100 at 200 pace I don't have much trouble keeping the pace,but if I stop at the 75 ,I am suddenly tired,almost as tired as if I had swum the full 100.

health.howstuffworks.com/.../sports-physiology.htm people.eku.edu/.../301notes6.htm Gary: a couple of thoughts, not mine originally. "The more I know, the less I know" or "the more I study, the more confused I get" and "what you believe in does not make it the truth". All these apply to me. Dang, I wish someone would clear this issue once and for all. I have been studying, asking other doctors, looking stuff up in the internet and there are still areas that are in the dark. For instance, it is well known that ATP lasts 8 to 10 seconds in the Phosphagen System, 90 seconds for the Glycogen-Lactic Acid System, and then indefinitely for the Aerobic System. So you could say that an exercise full out lasting less than a minute and a half would need no oxygen. That would cover most sprints in swimming. When going underwater with no breathing for over 25 meters, for instance, or swimming 50 and above with no breathing, is it the oxygen that is limiting us or is it the C02 drive? If you are told to go without breathing for a distance, don't you dose your speed with your time, i.e. the faster you go the sooner you will get there, but the faster you go, the more C02 builds up and makes you want to breathe. And lastly, there's an article that says C02 is not a factor in increasing respiratory rate in exercise, there are other factors. So now, I am back to zero, starting all over. Here is my understanding in the simplest way I can explain this physiology. We need ATP to make the muscle contract. We have stored high energy phosphate in the form of ATP and Creatine Phosphate (other?) and we produce ATP either anaerobically (without oxygen), producing 2 moles of ATP from each glucose molecule or aerobically (with oxygen), producing approx 30 moles of ATP from each molecule of glucose. Anaerobic production of ATP is not only less efficient (by a factor of 15) but also produces lactic acid as a byproduct. Now, here are some facts (I believe): 1) Available (stored) ATP or other high energy phosphate is used up in approximately 20 seconds of maximal exertion. 2) The two systems of producing ATP (aerobic and anaerobic) work simultaneously, not one then the other; though it takes longer for the the aerobic system to get into full swing. 3) The production of enough lactic acid, lowering the pH of the body, reduces efficiency of the muscle contraction (for several reasons). 4) The act of breathing in all strokes except backstroke, reduce speed in swimming by either slowing the stroke rate or increasing drag or both. 5) Having air in the lungs increases buoyancy and reduces drag. Now the most important thing to glean from all this is to use common sense. Learn from the champions. The winners of the 50 sprint take zero or one breath (except Dara Torres...there is always an exception). Most of the time, the 50 is won or lost in the last 10 meters, when lactic acid is coming on the scene. When Gary Jr won the 50 in athens he took a breath 10 meters from the wall, but then finished faster than everyone else. Cielo won in Bejing without breathing. Every male who has won the 100 m fly since 1984, except Pablo Morales in 1992 (who barely hung on to win), has breathed every stroke. So, once we get past the 50, most swimmers breath as often as they can...even at the expense of increasing drag. Bottom line, we need 02...lots of it when racing...and when you get to be my age, you need it more than ever. I am not sure the 2:3 pattern will ever be adopted by world class distance swimmers, because they are so aerobically fit, they have trained their body to function better with oxygen deprivation. So the increase drag or slowed stroke rate may not be worth it. There is not one human on the planet who would willingly breath at the respiratory rate of a world class swimmer breathing every cycle in a 1500 (30 to 40 respirations per minute) unless he or she had no choice. The human body is capable of amazing adaption...and that is what training is all about. Gary Sr. The Race Club

Here's a myth for all: you breathe because you need oxygen. NO! your primary urge to breathe is because you need to get rid or excess C02, a result of your metabolic process. You live in a normal partial pressure of C02 in your blood of around 40. As that goes up, while holding your breath, (in between inhaling air) you have the urge to breathe. It is based on sensors in your body. The ability to not breathe longer is purely mental. The first 20 or more or less seconds in an all out effort are done with cellular oxygen, so that breathing is not a factor. This is too complicated to expound on this forum, but do a research or look up the respiratory process in google. If you hold your breath (I have done that) for a minute or more your oxygen saturation does not alter. If you breathe pure oxygen, your respiratory rate will still be the same, even though you are getting more oxygen. The oxygen thing in airplanes and hospitals is because of a decreased offer (altitude) or decreased absorption (lung problems) or delivery (cardiac problems) or the use of opiods (which make your urge to breathe less evident). Everything said or argued above is correct, except that the lung expansion is necessary to remove C02, secondary to oxygen absorption. So why do we need to breathe more when swimming sprints using our legs more and so forth? Because we are producing more C02....billy fanstone One thing you are forgetting. The need for ATP and Oxygen changes dramatically during exercise. To produce a lot of ATP we need more O2. Gary

May be that your 200 pace is almost the same speed as your 100 pace??? No,at 200 pace my goal 200 time is 1:16-18.100 pace would be significantly faster.

May be that your 200 pace is almost the same speed as your 100 pace???

...But you do have a choice...sort of. First, you can learn to swim with a higher stroke rate and second, you can try a different breathing pattern. Specifically, I am referring to a 2:3 pattern rather than a 1:2 pattern of breathing. What that means in the Left Stroke Breath Right (LBR), Right Stroke Breathe Left (RBL) Left Stroke no breath (L), Right Stroke no breath (R) terminology is the following: LBR, RBL, L, RBL, LBR, R, LBR, RBL, L etc So, as is so common in swimming, this too presents compromise. What are the pros and cons? Pros: You get 27% more oxygen than if you breathe every cycle, and with oxygen you'll produce 15 times more ATP than without it, and hopefully produce less lactate. You get the associated benefit of breathing more...less fatigue. You get to see the scenery on both sides of the lake or pool. Cons: Most swimmers feel awkward breathing to their weak side. The act of breathing slows the stroke rate. Breathing often results in the arm being pulled too far under the body, creating more drag. In open water swims, if there is a nice swell on one side, breathing to that side may lead to swallowing more water. So this begs the question, if this 2:3 pattern is so good, why aren’t world-class distance swimmers using it? ... And for those swimmers who dare to try it (and it takes some getting used to), you may not actually swim any faster than by breathing every cycle, but, barring swallowing more water, I'll bet you will feel a lot better afterward. Gary Sr. I took this on as a challenge, at least to try it out until I can get it to the habit point. Then I'll try it out in a 200 or 400 this scm season and see what develops. It's actually an interesting exercise in mental focus. (Maybe that's my hardest part :D) I've tried increasing turnover in the past, but my stroke doesn't seem to lend itself to allowing me to do so. When I started the breathing pattern last week, (Wed., 8/25) I really had a hard time adjusting to the pattern, having to forget everything else but breathing. I used to breath on my left side, but, about 7 years ago transitioned to my right, so, going back to the left is a bit challenging, but not overly so. Sometimes we forget that making adjustments is only a decision and the sooner we decide, the sooner we'll make progress. I found if I start too soon in a swim I can get dizzy, so am waiting to around the 75 or so point in some longer swims to initiate the pattern. I also have to concentrate on keeping the head from whipping around too severly, otherwise, I can start to lose the centerpoint of my intended line within the lane.