Really only have taken a good look at the 100 breastroke (men) times, but, over-all really slow (in my opinion) No world records. Has the suits made that much difference? I don't know. Pool conditions-weather-who knows??
I thought it would be interesting to look at the results from 2006 as well. Using Jim's events:
M E N -- 55-59 -- 200 M. FREE
**********************************
1 JIM MC CONICA USA 2:10.01
2 ALEXANDER MILLS NOR 2:10.11
3 RICK WALKER USA 2:16.51
4 DAVE TANNER USA 2:17.32
5 JACK MARTIN USA 2:17.35
6 RONALD ARMSTRONG CAN 2:17.57
7 RONALD JACOBS USA 2:18.64
8 CRAIG SMITH USA 2:19.64
9 DON MORLEY USA 2:20.19
10 MIKE SHERRILL USA 2:20.33
**********************************
WOMEN -- 45-49 -- 200 M. FREE
**********************************
1 S.HEIM-BOWEN USA 2:14.83
2 SUSANNE SIMPSON USA 2:16.41
3 REBECCA PERROTT NZL 2:16.85
4 ELENE KAY JONES USA 2:16.90
5 MARGEE CURRAN USA 2:20.07
6 ANDREA BLOCK USA 2:20.22
7 KAREN ELLY GBR 2:22.13
8 TERRI MAGINNIS USA 2:23.05
9 KATHY GARNIER USA 2:23.87
10 K.ANDRUS-HUGHES USA 2:24.46
Observations:
So even in the pre-rubberized suit days, it sure seems that the times in Sweden are slow(er). At least in these two examples. I find this especially interesting because, other than for zippers and coverage from the knees to ankles, the women's suits in 2006 and 2010 should essentially be the same. Also, I had always thought that the pre-rubberized suits didn't make people appreciably faster than shaved skin. I can think of a few explanations for this off the top of my head:
1. The Swedish pools are slower or there are other factors that are hindering peformance (like the weather for the outdoor venue).
2. The talent pool at each meet is very different, and this group may be comparatively slower. (It's not even necessarily fair to compare people who have aged 2 years to their prior times.) Many of the fastest Americans and Aussies are not at this year's meet.
3. Compression (zippers for the ladies, full body suits for the lads) played a larger role in performance enhancement than I thought.
I decided to check my own (younger, less in need of compression) age groups results in the 100 *** for comparisson purposes:
Here's 2010:
1 Vladislav Bragin 1971 Duck´s Creek 30.55 1:05.38
2 Timo Nolte 1973 SV Wasserfreunde 1898 Hannover 31.51 1:06.46
3 Simone Battiston 1975 Derthona Nuoto 32.64 1:08.43
4 Sergey Firichenko 1973 Troyka 32.56 1:08.98
5 Petr Gregor 1973 Slavoj Bruntal 33.15 1:09.15
6 Jiri Geers 1974 Arvicola Zwemclub Kalmthout 32.50 1:09.22
7 Vincent Bulbo 1974 BLAC 33.51 1:10.22
8 Mikael Olsson 1975 Ystads Simsällskap 33.01 1:10.89
9 Eerikki Rutanen 1972 Tuusulan Uimaseura 33.71 1:11.02
10 Lee Peterson 1974 Braintree and Bocking 33.22 1:11.20
Here's 2008:
1 TIMO NOLTE GER 1:06.73
2 PAVEL CHECHULIN RUS 1:09.61
3 RAFFAELE NOTTE ITA 1:10.54
4 STEPHEN HIRZEL FRA 1:11.30
5 BENJAMIN O'CONNOR AUS 1:11.74
6 C.SANNIER FRA 1:12.41
7 YURY SARAMUTIN RUS 1:13.43
8 EMILIANO GALLAZZI ITA 1:14.18
9 L.RAMIREZ COL 1:14.30
10 ARI AILIO FIN 1:14.65
Here's 2006:
1 ROQUE SANTOS USA 1:08.34
2 ANDREA AGOSTINONE ITA 1:08.43
3 AARON BARTLESON USA 1:10.33
4 RICARDO TORRES PAN 1:10.59
5 MIKE LANE USA 1:10.79
6 LORENZO BENUCCI USA 1:11.70
7 RAY SMITH RSA 1:13.51
8 PETER FINNEY USA 1:13.64
9 LUKE SALERNO USA 1:14.05
10 MARK OLDHAM CAN 1:14.40
Well, how about that? I thought that the 2010 times looked fast, and they are! Despite no fancy suits, at least down in 35-39 100 ***, it looks like the boys are swimming faster than ever!
Alright. One more comparisson. This time in my esteemed teammate's age group in the 100 *** 65-69:
Here's 2010:
1 Kenneth Frost 1944 Tamalpais Aquatic Masters 38.13 1:20.98 CR
2 Dieter Hoefel 1945 Sparta Konstanz 38.57 1:22.37
3 Pertti Laaksonen 1943 Helsingin Uimarit 41.68 1:25.23
4 Peter Frenzel 1943 SG Stadtwerke München 40.47 1:27.65
5 Gabor Somlai 1944 UJBUDA Senior SC Budapest 40.96 1:28.59
6 Pavel Pejsa 1944 Bohemians Praha 42.81 1:30.00
7 Peter Stockhammer 1945 Delphin Herzogenaurach 42.26 1:30.03
8 Matthias Kroner 1943 Göteborg Sim 43.48 1:31.15
9 Siffroy Alain 1943 CHALLANS NATATION 42.63 1:31.19
10 Alexander Morshin 1945 Moscow Masters 41.03 1:31.43
Here's 2008:
1 GERSHON SHEFA ISR 1:21.75
2 RICHARD TODD USA 1:24.00
3 ERIK HAITES CAN 1:24.97
4 RAINER OPITZ GER 1:27.03
5 MATTHIAS KRONER SWE 1:28.65
6 ANTONIO ORSELLI BRA 1:28.78
7 HENRY MORRIS *** GBR 1:30.50
8 KEITH SHAW CAN 1:31.01
9 BRYAN FINLAY CAN 1:31.80
10 GIANFRANCO NASTI ITA 1:31.97
Here's 2006:
1 J.GOODWIN AUS 1:26.74
2 MIKE FRESHLEY USA 1:27.50
3 KARL WIEDAMANN USA 1:27.60
4 KARL ODKOLEK GER 1:30.34
4 PETER JOSEPH AUS 1:30.34
6 MICHAEL LAUX USA 1:30.46
7 DONALD PUCHALSKI USA 1:33.95
8 JIM PERILMAN USA 1:34.68
9 J.MADELENAT FRA 1:35.89
10 HIROYUKI NAGAOKA JPN 1:36.50
(For comparisson, Ken Frost went 1:18.16 two years ago when he was 64 and 1:17.89 in 2006 when he was 62.)
Again, this year the times were faster than in the prior two Worlds. So on an admittedly limited data set, I'm feeling that the explanation for time differences probably has less to do with the suits than it does with the swimmers.
Another explanation for a drop off in the performance is a decline in motivation to train hard, but importantly to race. This is what I see around.
We had a fun ride during the short "suit" phase of the sport of swimming evolution.
It can be downright shocking, buddy. Prepare thyself for the new world, but you're right on, I believe, with the fact we're all in the same boat. Or suit...or whatever...
Jim, can you offer some before and after comparisons from your own swimming performances?
And do you agree with Chris S's idea that sprints and freestyle are hurt the most?
At SCY Colony Zones last spring, I wore the B70 for the 100 and 200 and got lifetime bests in both events.
For the 50, I was one of the testers of the new Speedo jammer (absurdly priced, in my opinion). I went a respectable time for me--a 24.78, only a bit slower than the time I had swum it in a B70 two weeks earlier.
However, I was having such a good meet, and the GMU pool was so much faster than the pool I'd swum in earlier that I do wonder if I might have broken 24 for the first time in ages with the B70.
I'll never know, alas. But I concluded that the "fastest" jammer other people's money could buy was still between .25-1.00 seconds slower than the used B70 I got from a forumite for 1/4th the cost.
Besides speed alone, one thing I noticed from the get go about the full body suits is they make swimming easier and less tiring for me. Because of this, I predict that my times in longer distance events, and in LCM pools, will be impacted more than shorter sprints.
Personal prediction: 2-3 seconds per 100 LCM slower up to 400; 3-4 seconds (god, I hope no more!) in anything longer.
My freestyle was no more impacted by the suits than my breaststroke for what it's worth. To me, it seems obvious that compression provided as great, if not greater, a speed benefit for many swimmers than the rubberized coating did. In any event, I'm glad that even during the tech suit era I still did about half of my swims in jammers. It has meant that I have a realistic sense for how I perform without the tech suits and it wasn't a crushing blow to discover how much of a swim aid those suits really are. In fact, it helped me realize that fact and is a big reason I'm happy the tech suits are gone.
If you were to go to a nationals or a regional meet for that matter you would see that it has always been a "level playing field". Everyone that was competitive wore a tech suit. It was fun to swim fast.
I, for one, will miss the suit. I swim in the meets. Midas, you said you won't miss the suit.....Did you swim any meets this summer? Did you go to regionals? Worlds? Are you going to nationals? Just wondering, because if you did, you might find yourself missing the suit, too. Like I said, it's fun to swim fast.
I wouldn't use Larry Krauser as an example since he's swimming and playing water polo in Sweden. The guy's been back and forth between the venues like a madman. Polo is being played in another city that requires something like an hour bus ride from Gothenburg.
I am convinced that the absence of the long suits is having a profound effect on masters swimming times this year. Of course, like Jeff, I focus on my events in my age group. Here is a glaring example. Last year Josep Claret broke the world record in the 65+ 50 fly with a 28.54. This year he wins at Worlds with a 31.5. An anomoly? Last year the 10th place time in the world was 31.11. In the 100 fly Josep's record from last year was a 1:08.05. His winning time this year: 1:13.77.
Two thoughts: The older you are, the greater the impact of not having the suit. Second, not all swimmers are affected the same by the change. Comparing the world's top ten from 2009 to 2010 over all age groups will eventually give us a much better picture.
Another explanation for a drop off in the performance is a decline in motivation to train hard, but importantly to race. This is what I see around.
I am convinced that the absence of the long suits is having a profound effect on masters swimming times this year.
Two thoughts: The older you are, the greater the impact of not having the suit. Second, not all swimmers are affected the same by the change. Comparing the world's top ten from 2009 to 2010 over all age groups will eventually give us a much better picture.
I am one who feels he has benefited, time-wise, in a major way from the technical suits, though the difference between textile versions and the floatier B70 types was not nearly as huge as the difference between old-school briefs/jammers and textile body suits.
In fact, the two-second drop per 100 I experienced after first weaing an Aquablade kneeskin when these first came out probably had a major impact on my desire to compete, not so much against other people but against times I had swum myself in high school and college.
At this point, I am bracing myself for a downshift in times, but I am hoping that the loss of the technical suit will not put me at any more of a disadvantage than others in my age group. In fact, part of me hopes (without any real reason for it other than hope springing eternal) that the loss of body suits will effect my fellow age group competitors more than me, and that what I will lose in absolute times I will gain in relative position in the hierarchy of old boys.
The trick, I think, will be surviving my first brush with the new mediocrity!
Rich, as the Godfather to us all, what effect has the suit change had on your motivation to train hard and compete? After last spring's legendary performance, would you be satisfied with a No. 1 time in your age group, even if you swam it a second slower than at Geogia Tech?
Or does the prospect of (horrors!) slipping into the 23s (god forbid!) in the 50 SCY seem to you so depressing that you'd just as soon hang up the sluggish jammers for good and swim now just for fun?
In a separate thread, Rob Copeland asked what will be necessary to grow USMS membership to 100,000 and beyond. It will be interesting to see if the suit change hurts this effort.
One prediction: I suspect OW swimming may increase in popularity since the B70 style suits are still legal here. It remains to be seen what happens with pool meets. Does anyone know how Puerto Rico meet numbers stack up against other somewhat hard-to-get-to Nationals venues from the past?
