From Wikipediea:
The phrase "tyranny of the masses", used in discussing systems of democracy and majority rule, is a criticism of the scenario in which decisions made by a majority under that system would place that majority's interests so far above a dissenting individual's interest that the individual would be actively oppressed, just like the oppression by tyrants and despots.
And to continue... FINA has removed tech suits from competition. FINA also doesn't allow fins, zoomers, pull buoys, outboard motors, or lots of other devices.
If you want to bring back tech suits, you might as well start arguing that masters swimmers should be able to compete using pull buoys. After all, it makes most of you faster, right? Let's allow pulling on the lane lines in masters. After all, we're old and fat and can't follow the same rules that real swimmers follow.
One other thing to note -- if there is a demand for people feeling good about themselves using tech suits, then someone should setup a tech suit meet. The USMS rules allow for non-conforming races to be held under USMS sanction, so long as it doesn't pose a safety risk. The times don't count, of course. But you're free to setup a meet where you offer events:
50 free with tech suit
50 free with fins
50 free with tech suit and fins
50 free with tech suit and fins and paddles
50 free with tech suit, fins, paddles, and pull buoy
If people show up, great. Have fun with that.
However, for official organized competition, I'd prefer that we look to follow the same set of rules that the entire rest of the world swimming community is following, and shut up about it already.
-Rick
Wow! I can't believe that there is still so much controversy and emotion still attached to this subject! I, for one, loved my tech suit, but understand that this is a done deal, and now that it has been decided, I'm moving forward. Yes, my times are slower, it's a blow to my ego, and it takes adjustment, but it's over. If anyone is still suffering, it's their problem. I hope that our leadership doesn't go wishy-washy on this and creates a new rule. Leave the dead horse alone.
I didn't quite understand the whole SPMA controversy, but this is not ambiguous. When and if FINA has a new ruling, we'll adjust. In the mean time, it is what it is. While I didn't love the FINA position,the discussion has ended. Time to move forward.
LOL straw man argument. :blah:
I dunno, it seems like a legitimate argument.
USA-S rule 102.9.1E No swimmer is permitted to wear or use any device, substance or swimsuit to help his/her speed, pace, buoyancy or endurance during a race (such as webbed gloves, flippers, fins, etc.).
Anyway, swimsuits are clearly grouped with other passive aids like fins or paddles. (By "passive" I mean "powered by the swimmer.")
Connie,
I am sorry about your situation out there at SPMA. It sounds like things are going through some tough times, and as a member of USMS, thank you for your commitment to USMS.
Now I don't know you personally, and I have been reading this thread. I think that if you maybe looked back at some of the previous threads/polls that have been posted on the website you could have gotten an idea by asking this question you opening up a thread that people tend to get bent out of shape about. Maybe you did this before posting, I don't know. I think that for me, personally, I am tired of hearing about the tech suits. I am fine with saying that I am one of those people that I don't care either way, it is not going to affect my swimming. I am going to continue to set goals and train hard with or without them. This is just one of those heated topics that many people on this forum will say possibly hurtful things without meaning to.
I hope that you are able to find the answers that you are looking for, and I hope that your organization is able to have its members actively take part in this discussion.
I thought that people from the email list, who don't frequent the forums, and claim no-one is listening to them would come in, at the minimum, to vote.... so we could see some different numbers from pervious polls.
I thought it would be quicker and easier then putting the club assistant poll, and trying to get everyone to go there, and making sure elegible people vote etc... Not to replace the club assistant poll, but if the unheard people are really out there, they can help convince the skeptics. Lets say, if all of a sudden we get 100 or 200 new votes being cast here, compared to the old polls... the tells us something..
The forums are here for a lot of things, not just for daily gathering of regulars.
I'm not so worried about the forumites saying hurtful things. It's the ongoing conflict within the SPMA I'm fed up with... and couple of people that came here busting my bum and questioning my motivations are from *that* crowd.
They came in here to criticise and complain and judge, but they didn't bring their voting friends along. Go figure.
My bad.
and...
Grrrrrrrrrr.... grrrrr, grrrrrrrrrrr grrrrrrrrrrr
:argue:
:bitching:
:badday::badday::badday:
:censor::censor::censor::censor:
I do know this is not accomplishing anything...
I have a major pent up need to vent, and nowhere to go, and most of the stuff, I'm not allowed to say.
I have to s i t b a c k a n d w a i t f o r t h e w h e e l s o f j u s t i c e t o t u r n.
*headdesk*
This is why I don't run for a higher position, I don't have the nerves and patience for it. I like to *do* things, so I keep to doing things.
I think that's what started the whole mess, people who didn't know they don't have the nerves and patience for politics decided to beome politicians.
Ok, shut up now, Connie.
Sorry about the mess folks, I'll come back and sweep the place up when I feel better.
Seriously? Can't people just go with what FINA and USMS have ruled and let it go already!
Agreed. Until FINA rules again sometime in 2013, can we please drop this topic.
YES I want tech suit back for Meters and Yards!!!
If we can't use these suits then we should change all the sports since all of them have gone high tech in their sport!!! Every sport has changed!!!!!!!!!
And to continue... FINA has removed tech suits from competition. FINA also doesn't allow fins, zoomers, pull buoys, outboard motors, or lots of other devices.
If you want to bring back tech suits, you might as well start arguing that masters swimmers should be able to compete using pull buoys. After all, it makes most of you faster, right? Let's allow pulling on the lane lines in masters. After all, we're old and fat and can't follow the same rules that real swimmers follow.
LOL straw man argument. :blah:
