With the continued growth in USMS membership, I would submit that it's time to eliminate the regional teams at Nationals. Case in point: NCMS sent a "team" of 123 swimmers to Atlanta, enough to enter A, B, C, and D relays in many events (e.g. the mens 35+ 200 free relay in which our club team placed 13th behind eight regional teams). It's been argued that the formation of regional teams allows more swimmers to participate in relays, yet local clubs from North Carolina sent as many as thirty or more athletes and could have entered relays on their own as our club (with eight swimmers) did. Swim with the guys you actually train with.
What if USMS allowed the possibility of "pick up" relays where team orphans like me could create relays with other orphans once we got to the meet?
Surely, this would encourage camaraderie and the formation of new friendships?
We could stipulate that such relays don't "count" for team scoring, and maybe not even for Top 10 consideration (though this seems harsh.) We could further stipulate that the only people allowed to form such de facto teams would be those who could not otherwise swim any relays at all.
If the latter codicils were adopted, it would perhaps prevent great swimmers from going to meets unattached and cherry picking themselves yet another opportunity for greatness with others of their ilk. (I can already see Michael Ross and Chris Stevenson begging me and Leslie to join them in a mixed gender relay.)
Anyhow, what do you think of some variation of this? Kinks remain to be worked out (such as when I would be allowed to swim as woman.) But I am confident that now that I have outlined my Broad Vision for Equal Relay Opportunity, the detail people can work on eliminating said kinks.
Who could possibly object to a de-kinked version of this Great Idea?
Well, it goes without saying that any proposal of yours is bound to be quite kinky. You've already de-gendered youself in that suggestion, right?
I don't know about nationals, but we allow UNAT relays to swim (unofficially) at our local meets and they function in exactly this "pickup" fashion. The relays don't count for anything. I wonder if this could be done at nationals with no change of rules at all? Just plunk down your money for the relay. The main sticking point I see is, is it possible for a person registered to a team actually swim as part of an UNAT relay?
Jim, what does it take to actually create a Masters team? Does said team actually have to have any workouts together? Maybe you should create RagTagMasters and starting recruiting for teammates from around the country.
All that is required is filling out a form and sending in some money. Here is the one for Virginia, as an example:
www.vaswim.org/.../CLUB MEMBERSHIP APPLICATION 2010.pdf
How the heck do coaches get away with this kind of thing???
Oh right... their swimmers let them.
Good point...somebody else had to have known or seen it happen...
Done! It's Patrick, Mateo, Bill, and myself--the next time the four of us are assembled at a meet, we will deck enter a relay!
In for a penny, in for a pound, I say!
I think you got a bit ahead of yourself there. I'm perfectly happy with your proposal but I'm sticking with my "gull endorsed super LMSC for NC team."
I don't know about nationals, but we allow UNAT relays to swim (unofficially) at our local meets and they function in exactly this "pickup" fashion. The relays don't count for anything. I wonder if this could be done at nationals with no change of rules at all? Just plunk down your money for the relay. The main sticking point I see is, is it possible for a person registered to a team actually swim as part of an UNAT relay?
I've been on a couple ad hoc relays at small meets. The only time I ever turned one down was when the relay in question was scheduled right before my 200 fly. In that particular case, the "organizer" was just a guy walking around the pool deck asking each swimmer if they wanted to be on a relay. Join relays, they're fun.
I don't know about nationals, but we allow UNAT relays to swim (unofficially) at our local meets and they function in exactly this "pickup" fashion. The relays don't count for anything. I wonder if this could be done at nationals with no change of rules at all? Just plunk down your money for the relay. The main sticking point I see is, is it possible for a person registered to a team actually swim as part of an UNAT relay?
A swimmer can unattach at any time: 201.3.5 A swimmer shall not represent any club in competition for 60 consecutive
days before transferring affiliation to another club, unless this transfer takes
place at the time of annual registration. A swimmer may declare unattached
status at any time without written application.
But UNAT relays are currently prohibited: 102.9 Relays
102.9.1 Relay teams shall not compete unattached. In all cases, relay teams must
be composed of USMS members of the same club, which is a member of
USMS.
I think the onus, in the end, falls squarely on the coaches shoulders...but, as swimmers, we also bare part of that responsibility to keep our coaches inline.
But UNAT relays are currently prohibited:
Yes, I knew that. They are essentially exhibition relays at our meets: they do not win awards, cannot set records, and are not eligible for Top Ten. Relay leadoff legs cannot be used for split requests either. But I'll include them (marked as exhibition) in the meet results.
If they would do something similar at nationals then no new rules need be adopted.
Heck, we've done stranger things: two-person relays, couples relays, etc. And I still miss beer relays...
... And I still miss beer relays...Never done one yet at a pool, unless you count some antics with various swim teams at various lakes in my misspent youth.:D
If Paul Smith is out there still (Bueller??), maybe he can work them into the Mesa Nationals? I'm sure it would go down well with the locals.:D:D
i don't know of any team/club/lmsc/workout group within USMS that takes team competition that seriously..... maybe i'm wrong.
Sadly, when we had Small, Medium and Large categories there were isolated incidents of teams asking their slower swimmers to stay home. Similarly, some asked for their slower swimmers to switch to Unattached status for the meet so they wouldn't count against the number of swimmers (in case it helped them stay in a smaller category for scoring).
I find this thread fascinating.
One of the reasons that I chose to focus exclusively on swimming (rather than water polo and swimming together) after high school was the fact that I liked the individuality of swimming. Just me against the clock, or against 7 other swimmers.
That is not to say that I didn't enjoy the camaraderie of college swimming - I found college championships, and even dual meets (especially against 'Furd and U$C), to be great team events. This includes swimming in - and cheering for - your school's relays.
HAVING SAID THAT, who really cares about masters zone, association or national team championships? In whatever manner they are constructed, they are just collections of "whoever could make it to the meet". I'm sure in Atlanta, Walnut Creek didn't have all of their best swimmers there. Nor TOC, nor even OREG.
Sure there are teams that train together, and their swimmers probably have stronger bonds than do swimmers from regional teams.
I, for one, would gladly pimp myself out to swim on a great WR or NR relay team. Who cares if I have to wear a different cap? Ultimately, I will still be looking at my individual events first. And I will still watch the swims of old and new friends, regardless of who they represent.
If this is such an issue, why not simply exclude the relay points from the total scoring? And then let any group of four swimmers get together for relays... regardless of where they train, or who they represented in individual events.
I want a 45+ 200 or 400 BR relay of, for example, Guthrie, Weissman, Blank, Mills, Dicks and/or myself to see if we can break 1:48 and 3:52...
