With the continued growth in USMS membership, I would submit that it's time to eliminate the regional teams at Nationals. Case in point: NCMS sent a "team" of 123 swimmers to Atlanta, enough to enter A, B, C, and D relays in many events (e.g. the mens 35+ 200 free relay in which our club team placed 13th behind eight regional teams). It's been argued that the formation of regional teams allows more swimmers to participate in relays, yet local clubs from North Carolina sent as many as thirty or more athletes and could have entered relays on their own as our club (with eight swimmers) did. Swim with the guys you actually train with.
No the minority discounts the issues that may be important to the larger population by being the squeaky wheel.
This is an issue that is important to many who do compete. Regardless of the numbers, that should be enough to create some discussion, period, end of story. The vast overwhelming majority of us don't swim with Walnut Creek but we are all upset, intrigued and interested in the status of that program. Not all issues have to impact the entire community for them to be of concern to the general membership population. And, no one has ever suggested this issue become all-consuming.
No the minority discounts the issues that may be important to the larger population by being the squeaky wheel.
How do you know?
I'm in favor of flogs, GTD, check off challenges and all the like -- even though I do none of them. Most of my time in the pool I'm surrounded by fitness swimmers and lap swimmers.
About 300 (out of 1,100) of the projected 2,200 attendees of next year's Spring Nationals will be from Arizona. If you figure USMS will have around 46,000 members at the end of April 2011 that means less than 5% of registered members will be competing at the Kino Aquatics Center. I will be one of them and I will be stoked...but I (we?) will also be a tiny percentage of USMS. Those of us at the meet will have a great time, swim fast, and enjoy some wonderful weather.
Over 40,000 of our fellow swimmers won't know or care however. Its OK though, as long as they are staying fit and realizing their goals then that is fine. These are the majority of our members, so all our talk about relays, scoring, and the like simply does not register. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
Those of us who compete (including myself) are a vocal yet active minority in masters swimming. We are the ones who basically run the organization, go to the meets, and set the direction for others to follow. There is nothing wrong with this so long as we are aware of the needs of the majority of our members and seek to address them.
Just my :2cents:, see you all in Mesa next Spring.
...oh and Puerto Rico this Summer.
FOR NATIONALS!!!!!!!!!:bliss:
I like statistics and all, but I don't get your point for repeatedly pointing out someone is a minority. I didn't understand why you made the point the first time, and I don't understand why it needed to be repeated.
Zones are scored the same way and are subject to the same issue of larger teams dominating due to a huge number of relays.
Actually, this needn't be true at all. In the Rule Book (rule 104.5.6 "Club Scoring"), the categories of Regional and Local clubs are defined under the broader heading of 104.5 "Conduct of National Championship Meets." Nothing prevents your Zone Championship from using another system.
I know our latest Colonies Zone Championships used the "Small/Medium/Large" categories, for example.
Are DAM and TXLA considered regional teams since they practice at multiple pools, or a normal team because they are run under one organization?
Practicing at multiple pools has nothing to do with it, at least according to the rules. (For example, Indy Swim Fit is a local team even though it has multiple pools.)
The rule is "a Regional Club consists of a club made up of those swimmers who represent a club at nationals, but at competitions within their LMSC, they compete for an entity or subgroup (such as a workout group) that is different than the one they compete with at nationals." And a local club is a club that is not a regional club.
I like statistics and all, but I don't get your point for repeatedly pointing out someone is a minority. I didn't understand why you made the point the first time, and I don't understand why it needed to be repeated.
He pointed out that while he is part of this minority, this group is also the most vocal and the most active so it is easy to overlook the Majority of swimmers who do not compete at nationals. Its a far cry from saying this group is less important. This group is essentially the squeaky wheel and generally discounts / overlooks the needs and opinions of the swimmers not at nationals.
Face it, if you make a change to the scoring to lessen the impact on larger teams "all star" teams would pop up and we would be having a similar discussion while doing nothing that benefits the majority of USMS Swimmers.
He pointed out that while he is part of this minority, this group is also the most vocal and the most active so it is easy to overlook the Majority of swimmers who do not compete at nationals. Its a far cry from saying this group is less important. This group is essentially the squeaky wheel and generally discounts / overlooks the needs and opinions of the swimmers not at nationals.
So the people who compete at Nationals are discounting the opinion of the people who don't compete at Nationals on the topics of how Nationals should be scored and if regional teams should be allowed to compete at Nationals?
So the people who compete at Nationals are discounting the opinion of the people who don't compete at Nationals on the topics of how Nationals should be scored and if regional teams should be allowed to compete at Nationals?
No the minority discounts the issues that may be important to the larger population by being the squeaky wheel. Its all to easy to focus on the issues raised by this particular group and completely overlook the fact that the rest of the USMS population may have issues or needs they want to address as well.
And to the issue at hand with regional teams, Zones are scored the same way and are subject to the same issue of larger teams dominating due to a huge number of relays. Why should only those who compete at nationals have an say in what could potential affect my local zone meet? Its easy to overlook these things and focus on the more visible and more vocal.
No the minority discounts the issues that may be important to the larger population by being the squeaky wheel. Its all to easy to focus on the issues raised by this particular group and completely overlook the fact that the rest of the USMS population may have issues or needs they want to address as well.
Good, we have identified the champions of the unvoiced majority, the protectors of the the silent opinion of the masses. Thank you Adam and Kevin.
Gull, is this a problem in South Central Zones. Are DAM and TXLA considered regional teams since they practice at multiple pools, or a normal team because they are run under one organization? Or does no one care at the Zone level in our Zone?
Although I don't agree with you, I am sorry that your friend didn't have a chance to medal, but I do hope that he had a very good Nationals experience. I got to meet forum friends for the first time, but it would have been great to have team friends there with me as well. Your presence probably made more difference than the medal would have.
This is an issue that is important to many who do compete. Regardless of the numbers, that should be enough to create some discussion, period, end of story. The vast overwhelming majority of us don't swim with Walnut Creek but we are all upset, intrigued and interested in the status of that program. Not all issues have to impact the entire community for them to be of concern to the general membership population. And, no one has ever suggested this issue become all-consuming.
This issue is not, nor should be all consuming. But it has and will again get its fair discussion time. The whole spectrum of issues raised by the highly visible and vocal minority does have that potential to overshadow other issues that might better serve USMS as a whole and that was my point.
Walnut creek and this issue is not a good comparison to this one. Unless you do believe the impact is limited only to members and coaches at Walnut creek. And I don't believe you do.
