I Can't Use My Suit?

Do you consider it cheating when you use the frog kick in a butterfly race. I do.

I have to agree with this. While Masters meets are very laid back and tolerant, intentionally showing up and cheating would certainly not be viewed favorably. It would be distracting to know the swimmer next to me would be DQd, if they weren't pulled off the block. I was thinking about wearing my LZR for an off race at my next meet (whenever that is!). I would expect to be DQ'd but I would expect to be able to swim the race. I don't see how it effects anyone else? If I decide to do this, I will seek consent of the referee before the race just to check (and) if they said they will pull me from the blocks then I wouldn't squawk. 6-7 years ago I swam a 100 fly instead of 100 IM. I don't know why, but I felt good on the fly and decided to keep going. The official insinuated that I displayed poor conduct and told me that I would be kicked out of the meet if I did it again. HA! I told him the 100IM is only swam once per meet! If you tell me that, honestly, you find such behavior distracting and (more importantly) detrimental to you own race then perhaps I will reconsider my stance...

Do you consider it cheating when you use the frog kick in a butterfly race. I do. Nope. The rules state that a breastroke kick maybe used in masters swimming in butterfly races. The rules are clear. It's not cheating.

Wow. This really morphed into a complicated issue. I really have not looked back at previous discussions relating to this rule, so I am really unaware of what has been said. What I was told is that men cannot wear a suit that is above the waist or below the knee. Is that correct? If it is correct, then is that true for both sexes or do women have to leave their midriff bare? That would only seem the fair way to interpret the restriction on a male swimmer. Here is the current rule in USMS. So you can wear full body suits at nationals, since it is SCY and before the June 1 deadline. After that you need to wear FINA-approved jammers. And in SCM and LCM meets right now (ie, even before June 1) you have to wear FINA-approved jammers.

I do believe that the full length "tech" suits were excessive. I don't think that any part of the body being used as a propulsive force should be covered (legs, arms, hands). I don't see that the torso should be considered propulsive even though it may be minimally. I swim with my core. Men have traditionally worn jammers and briefs. Women never have.

It is only "cheating" because someone wrote a rule that outlawed a $575 suit that I only got to wear once and was not consulted with in the matter. Of course consulting with each of the 50,000 members would be impossible which is why I therefore conclude that really, in the end, what is cheating is left to the individual. Put another way I am the one who get determines the utility of the purchases I make. Besides, there is a difference between breaking a rule, which leads to disqualification, and cheating. It is comforting to those who see the world in black and white to call "rule breaking" cheating because behavior has to fit neatly into collumns for it to make sense. PS: I didn't really to the IM / fly thing. I was just trying to fan the flame! But reviewing the matter more carefully those aren't really the same thing (the suit versus the IM/fly switch)!

Wow. This really morphed into a complicated issue. I really have not looked back at previous discussions relating to this rule, so I am really unaware of what has been said. What I was told is that men cannot wear a suit that is above the waist or below the knee. Is that correct? If it is correct, then is that true for both sexes or do women have to leave their midriff bare? That would only seem the fair way to interpret the restriction on a male swimmer. I don't think that I indicated that I would try to swim in a meet with an illegal suit, just that I may not want to swim in a meet with a legal suit. There is a big difference there. I do believe it gives someone like me a distinct advantage having "natural" sub-cutaneous buoyancy with an unnaturally tight skin. I haven't swam at a meet in 20 years without this type of suit. I do believe that the full length "tech" suits were excessive. I don't think that any part of the body being used as a propulsive force should be covered (legs, arms, hands). I don't see that the torso should be considered propulsive even though it may be minimally.

Here is the current rule in USMS. So you can wear full body suits at nationals, since it is SCY and before the June 1 deadline. After that you need to wear FINA-approved jammers. And in SCM and LCM meets right now (ie, even before June 1) you have to wear FINA-approved jammers. Thanks for the info Chris. Cannot make nationals this year.

Lee, Come on out to nats and race just for fun. We can compare beer guts:D I'm right next to you in the 50 ***, heat 16, lane 7. Well, I'm coming back to swim at Master's meets after a 5 year hiatus (surgeries, etc) and find that I cannot wear my "Farmer John" suit bought in 2000 and worn in 4 previous national meets (except this spring). Not a "tech" suit by any means but a hell of a beer-gut bra! Not sure I would get on the blocks without it so the hiatus may continue. Is it worth alienating us "plus-sized" guys over this silly rule? I suppose it will give me yet another reason to dump some weight. Looks like those other 50+ breaststrokers won't get beat by this fat guy any time soon. Anyone else out there feel the same? I know most of you out there don't have this problem but to have a rule that reduces participation seems counterproductive. Lee Rider Fort Bragg, CA

Proof that there are people who have a rules based sense of morality. (and) Indication that you are confused about what that even means. Safe to say he missed your point.