Absent technique improvement, I am wondering if each swimmer has a ceiling that can never really be broken once a minimal amount of training has occurred. This is my theory based on my own swimming experience over the last year.
No matter how fast I flail my arms the result in the 50 free always seems to be the same - 28.5, 29.2, 28.7. Seems like a random result +- 0.5 seconds. :frustrated:
Can someone with those kinds of results ever eventually go 26 something just by training harder, doing more and more sprints, etc.. I would hope to hear that is a possibility even though I know I have some fundamental flaws.
Probably not,but what do you have against technique improvement?The 50 is not an endurance event so aerobic conditioning is not going to make much difference except to help you hold form longer as you do sets.Lifting weights and exercises to improve explosive power will give some improvement,but the big time drops will come from working on streamlining,EVF,etc.Technique improvement is the easiest way to get faster.
Herb,
How much work do you do on your starts? Any reaction time drills? How about any work in the gym to strengthen your legs? How much work do you do on your turns? Finishes?
While the 50 Free (assuming yards) does actually have about 35 yards of actual swimming in it, it is an event that is dominated by the start, turn and finish.
If you really don't want to do any actual work and are in OK condition, lots of rest (about a week) off of your feet will help. Once. But real repeatable speed comes with strength and technique work. No shortcuts to the desired goal.
In the same boat Herb, what recently helped me was practice sprinting, hypoxics, and lifting more. My fastest 50 was an enduring 27.74 done last month. So I started practicing 50's doing the first 25 without breath and now I can do close to the same time from a push several times subsequently with 2 minutes rest. I just changed my approach.
Can someone with those kinds of results ever eventually go 26 something just by training harder, doing more and more sprints, etc.. I would hope to hear that is a possibility even though I know I have some fundamental flaws.
Yes. You want to go from 28.5 to 26? I don't see why not. Read Ande's speed tips and do lots of 12.5's and 25's all out in practice. Practice starts and turns like Paul suggests. Do alot of no breathing. Pay attention to times and stroke count. Do alot of sprint kick sets. The 50 and 100 free are dominated by the strong 6 beat kick. Practice SDK for a strong underwater at the start and turn. You want to get out a body length past the flags on the start and turn.
Absent technique improvement, I am wondering if each swimmer has a ceiling that can never really be broken once a minimal amount of training has occurred. This is my theory based on my own swimming experience over the last year.
No matter how fast I flail my arms the result in the 50 free always seems to be the same - 28.5, 29.2, 28.7. Seems like a random result +- 0.5 seconds. :frustrated:
Can someone with those kinds of results ever eventually go 26 something just by training harder, doing more and more sprints, etc.. I would hope to hear that is a possibility even though I know I have some fundamental flaws.
I'm missing something here. How can you avoid stumbling into technique improvement if you continue training? Yes, you can and will get stronger, but I think it is impossible to avoid getting better at the same time.
I believe that humans are fundamentally very lazy (at least I am), and our bodies will adapt without conscious input to make our repetitive tasks easier. So your streamline will get tighter, your flips quicker, your pushes stronger, and your stroke more efficient simply because your body is tired of being asked to do 28 second 50 yard flails inefficiently. Your fundamental flaws will either disappear or will be adapted in some fashion into your stroke in a way that makes it easier for you to swim a 28. And yes, if you keep at it, one day you will swim a 26 because the unconscious changes will have made you a better swimmer. I believe you can accelerate the process by consciously working on technique, but improvement is inevitable.
It is a diminishing logarithmic scale -- there is less return as you get faster, but at 28 seconds per 50, there should be a whole lot of improvement available for no conscious investment in technique changes.
Having said that, there is a guy on my team who swam slower in one of our big meets 2 years after he first did it. Same meet, same pool, and he trained pretty consistently throughout that 2 year period. It's not aging; he's in very good shape. He was just slower. So I may be totally out to lunch here. It wouldn't be the first time.
Probably not,but what do you have against technique improvement?The 50 is not an endurance event so aerobic conditioning is not going to make much difference except to help you hold form longer as you do sets.Lifting weights and exercises to improve explosive power will give some improvement,but the big time drops will come from working on streamlining,EVF,etc.Technique improvement is the easiest way to get faster.
I have absolutely nothing against technique improvement. I think it is the root cause of my problems and frustration.
Unfortunately I think my swim stroke might be similar to my golf stroke. I was a decent golfer, for a weekend hack. I could consistently shoot mid 80s and occassionally break 80. Occassionally I would hear comments about how funky my stroke was. One day I was playing with a pro and he told me "honestly your stroke is so screwed up that I could help you but you would go through a whole year of misery to even get back to where you are at now so I don't think you even want to hear it".
I don't know how much swimming is like golf in that regard, but I imagine I have swam x million yards with a flawed stroke. I have finally got some coaching and I'm working on it but it is tough for me to translate. With workout sets, at least I know what I have to do.
Herb,
How much work do you do on your starts? Any reaction time drills? How about any work in the gym to strengthen your legs? How much work do you do on your turns? Finishes?
While the 50 Free (assuming yards) does actually have about 35 yards of actual swimming in it, it is an event that is dominated by the start, turn and finish.
My starts are absolutely horrid. But in reality the 50 free is not what I care about. I just want to break 1:00 in the 100 and realize it is an impossibility if I can't swim a 50 under 27.
I'm missing something here. How can you avoid stumbling into technique improvement if you continue training? Yes, you can and will get stronger, but I think it is impossible to avoid getting better at the same time.
I believe that humans are fundamentally very lazy (at least I am), and our bodies will adapt without conscious input to make our repetitive tasks easier. So your streamline will get tighter, your flips quicker, your pushes stronger, and your stroke more efficient simply because your body is tired of being asked to do 28 second 50 yard flails inefficiently. Your fundamental flaws will either disappear or will be adapted in some fashion into your stroke in a way that makes it easier for you to swim a 28. And yes, if you keep at it, one day you will swim a 26 because the unconscious changes will have made you a better swimmer. I believe you can accelerate the process by consciously working on technique, but improvement is inevitable.
It is a diminishing logarithmic scale -- there is less return as you get faster, but at 28 seconds per 50, there should be a whole lot of improvement available for no conscious investment in technique changes.
Having said that, there is a guy on my team who swam slower in one of our big meets 2 years after he first did it. Same meet, same pool, and he trained pretty consistently throughout that 2 year period. It's not aging; he's in very good shape. He was just slower. So I may be totally out to lunch here. It wouldn't be the first time.
This is very interesting. And just what I wanted to hear - until the last paragraph.
My starts are absolutely horrid. But in reality the 50 free is not what I care about. I just want to break 1:00 in the 100 and realize it is an impossibility if I can't swim a 50 under 27.
I would start working on your starts and turns. Get that tight streamline and push off the wall down. Then work on fewer breaths. This is what I'm working on with my coach. As a distance swimmer, my 50 free has gone down in time with these few changes.
