Backstroke Turns?

Before the requirement that a hand touch the wall on every backstroke turn was removed, we used to do a "pivot turn." It is actually quite quick if done properly. There appears to be a video of one on sportplan.net, but I can't make the video work. There is a terse description of one there. I agree with Lump though, don't give up on the current backstroke turn. I cut 10 s of my 200 back repeats in practice in one week when I learned the turn. Read Ande's SFF tip on turn cues: U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

All it takes is practice (like anything). Has anyone told you how to count your strokes into the wall? Its just like doing a freestyle flipturn (with the added twist from your back to stomach). Once you know how many strokes it takes from the flags to the wall, do some 100's back from mid-pool to work on turns. Don't give up though!

I've done (and had my swimmers do) Ethan Hawke's sprint set. Not sure Ethan Hawke does much coaching, but Brett Hawke does. :)

I never have mastered counting strokes for backstroke turns. Too much to think about, I guess. I start the turn when my toes are inside the flags. The really weird part about it is that when I drive to the pool, I have to count FREEWAY LANES to figure out if I'm in the correct lane to take my exit. I can't sight it even though I've swum at that pool since 1991. It has to be the 4th lane out of 6 or 7. :confused:

Not sure Ethan Hawke does much coaching, but Brett Hawke does. :) Doh! Right you are -- I would bet that Brett swims a lot faster than Ethan as well!

Some one needs to help you ! Can you do regular free flips ? If you can then it is your stroke count. If it is 5 to the wall from the flags , then on 3 you should roll over & take 1 more last pull thru. Try it & tell us how you do .

Can someone explain to me how to properly perform an open turn for backstroke? I can do the back-to-*** turn just fine, so I'm guessing that back-to-back is kinda the same, except instead of pushing off on your belly, you push off on your back. That's really all there is to it. One thing to keep in mind is that you must touch the wall on your back and you must leave the wall on your back, but in between those two events you can do whatever you want. So don't worry if you turn over toward your stomach after you've touched the wall. It's faster if you just pivot around and remain on your back, but you won't be DQed if you turn over.

I have officially given up trying to do a flip turn on my 50 Back. I was DQ'd this past weekend as I tried to turn over, flip and push off. I DQ'd because my feet couldn't find the wall and I just kinda floated there for a second, did a double arm pull, and went on my merry way. This has occurred at every meet so far, and I'm over it. I noticed a lot of folks were doing open turns for their backstroke. I tried to find some videos online to show this, but I couldn't. Can someone explain to me how to properly perform an open turn for backstroke? I can do the back-to-*** turn just fine, so I'm guessing that back-to-back is kinda the same, except instead of pushing off on your belly, you push off on your back. I have a lot of problems judging distance (always have, even as a kid...I used to run into a lot of walls when I figure skated), and this seems to have been the problem with swimming as well. Thanks ahead for any advice. I don't know if there is much you can do about depth perception, but you can get your stroke count from the flags in. That distance to the wall is always the same. That's the good news. The bad news, of course, is that your distance per stroke is probably not the same in a race as it is in practice -- you're tired, or fresh, or wearing a different suit or ... So to get a race speed turn down, practice the turn at race speed so you get a feel for it. I'd suggest at least one practice per week for a while before the meet (at least six weeks to two months) that you devote time to recreating the conditions under which you've got to turn. Warm up like you'd do at the meet, then do a set of 25 backstrokes at full speed. Play with the stroke count (3, 3.5, 4, etc.) and then when you've found the right count, practice that turn at full speed. When you get tired, you can try fins to generate some additional speed. The idea is that you want to get used to the distance and timing of a full out turn. I've done (and had my swimmers do) Ethan Hawke's sprint set. It is not a lot of yards, but if done properly it is *hard*. It goes like this: 4 x 50 1. 20 all out from block/ 30 easy on 1:30 (work start) 2. 30 all out from push/ 20 easy on 1:30 (work turn) 3. 50 easy on 2:00 to 2:30 (pulse back down under 100) 4. 50 from blocks all out for time. and we do a couple of cycles through that, holding the same stroke through each round of the set. With SDK's this set is really exhausting for backstroke. The Auburn guys do this set and produce 19's in practice on the last one for freestyle -- truly amazing swimming and extremely impressive. I think there is a video on the Auburn web site of the practice. Best of luck...

I have officially given up trying to do a flip turn on my 50 Back. I was DQ'd this past weekend as I tried to turn over, flip and push off. I DQ'd because my feet couldn't find the wall and I just kinda floated there for a second, did a double arm pull, and went on my merry way. This has occurred at every meet so far, and I'm over it. Thanks ahead for any advice. Jen - Can you make a trip to Thousand Oaks for one of my workouts? Connect with Jinxi and carpool up here. Or grab me at a meet - I'm at almost all of them. I'll show ya how to do a backstroke turn - in person!

Thanks for all of the advice folks! I think what makes a big impact for me is that I practice in a pool that does not have flags. It's a pool inside a gym. I use my peripheral vision to note the lane line color change in order to anticipate my turn. I played around with my turns today, as it was backstroke day, so I had a good number figured out as to not crash into the wall. But as someone else mentioned, I forget all about counting my strokes when it comes to a race. It's like my brain just shuts off that part and only focuses on the go fast part. Oh, and Ashlee, Thousand Oaks is a bit far for me, but if you could PM me with some info as to carpooling, I would love to attend!!!!