The following has appeared on a swim forum in the UK
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I’ve been looking at recent masters results. It’s clear that swimmers are producing much slower times without bodysuits. Furthermore, many swimmers are disillusioned and are on the verge of giving up completely. It would be a travesty if these swimmers (they are mostly the over 45s) were lost to the sport altogether.
The majority of masters swimmers prefer to compete in bodysuits. Of that there is no doubt, as witnessed at masters meets up and down the country. It is a disgrace that masters swimmers have been included in the ‘new rules’ concerning elite swimming. I find it quite sad that many swimmers are talking about cutting up their suits, taking out zips and even asking whether they are allowed ‘modesty panels’ in their suits any more.
As always, we are getting no advice, guidance or even leadership from the toothless Masters Committee, whose gingivitic and malocclusive tendencies are attracting Big Nev’s interest, but that’s to be expected.
But it doesn’t have to be like this. Masters swimmers in Italy are not accepting this farce. They are still holding meets where swimmers can choose to wear bodysuits.
There was a recent questionnaire sent out to 4,000 masters swimmers in France. 2,700 swimmers replied, stating they wished to keep their bodysuits for competition.
Masters swimmers in Germany are on the verge of revolution! They accept that masters swimmers are not going to be a threat to any Olympian’s records. Many have now entered masters meets in Italy where they can wear their suits if they want. Also, some meet organisers in Germany are holding similar meets.
Instead of following any directive from our anaemic and tedious Masters Committee, I’d like to see masters swimmers in the UK make a stand against the stupidity surrounding the banning of bodysuits. It will cost me time and money but I’m prepared to organise this.
We need meet organisers in the UK to hold ‘optional suit’ masters meets. Swimmers can choose whether to wear a suit or not. If they are going for a record then the suitless option is a must - but only for a while. I believe that if we boycott masters meets where suits are now allowed, meet organisers, the Masters Committee and the ASA would have to take notice. At the moment they don’t give a toss. At the forefront of the ASA’s mind would be the loss of revenue. Believe me, they see masters swimming as a joke anyway, they would happily let masters swim in bodysuits if it meant they could keep the revenue pouring in.
Getting meet organisers to run ‘bodysuit’ meets would be easy. They would be oversubscribed, every time. Not only from our swimmers but from overseas entries too. I can see one-day meets turning into weekend ones. The organisers could make a lot of money from these well-attended meets. Pulling the plug on masters meets because of low entries would be a thing of the past.
These meets would be the thin end of the wedge in bringing about a change of rules. It‘s the boycotting of ‘non-suit’ meets that would bring a change of rule overnight.
The decathlon would be meaningless because ‘suited’ swims wouldn’t count towards it - but in reality, it is a meaningless competition anyway for all but ten swimmers in the UK who have a chance of winning it.
Don’t underestimate what can be done. Masters swimmers are a powerful group in swimming. The Government is putting very large amounts of money into the greasy hand of the ASA to promote health and fitness for adults. The ASA wouldn’t like the kind of publicity we can give them.
If you feel you can support this initiative I’ll make a start. Masters swimmers in Italy, France and Germany are ready to come on board. Many masters swimmers in America are also willing to make a stand against their governing body. Naturally, support from suit manufacturers is there already. I’ve spoken to four of the biggest.
Former Member
It's likely more "pathetic" to watch a sport based on skin coverage or tell people they're "pathetic" or "ridiculous" based on their choice of suit.
Well said.
I've read about this line of thinking a lot on this forum - not just from Chris. But as a *newbie* who jumped into biking and running to do triathlons (albeit not well), I sucked it up, bought the gear, completely trained myself (hell, I was in the wrong gears for 15 miles during my first tri competition) and competed. So. . . I just think that riding a bike w/ clips, shoes, aerobars and the like down huge hills at huge speed in bad weather with cars everywhere (heck, and stray animals) is much scarier than putting on a tech suit and heading to a pool. And this is coming from a gal who won't spend one night camping. Just sayin' Perhaps those people are simply not cut out for sport.
Word.
Look, my original statement was that it is not at all obvious to me that (a) tech suits are responsible even in a small way for the increase in USMS membership, and (b) banning them will result in a decrease in the sport. I have what seem to me to be plausible justifications, but opinions can differ because no one knows the truth at this point.
I know for a fact (because they complained to me) that there were at least some people -- newbies and veterans alike -- who were turned off from competitions because of the suits. I know that there were some who loved the suits and enjoyed competitions more because of them. And there are those like BN who claim they will quit USMS after the suits are gone.
I don't know how the numbers of the two groups compare; I don't think anyone knows, despite the OP's claim of massive uprisings in Europe.
But what is blindingly obvious is that the ban has increased the moaning and groaning by quite a bit, as is evidenced by the existence of this thread and quite a few others. My main fear at this point is that it will never, ever stop. Where is Dara Torres when you need her?
Just to clarify my position, my issue with USMS is that one can attend sanctioned meets and then not have any swims from that meet count for Top 10 due to a variety of reasons including the pool not being measured; officials not knowing the rules; there is a shortage of officials; officials must leave the meet early; results not submitted in a correct form or in a timely manner or at all and the list goes on and on. This has happened to me numerous times at many meets including travel meets where I've forked over some $$$$'s to compete. This issue in and of itself is enough for one to seek an organization in which retroactive DQ's are not the norm - like at USA-S. If USMS decided to keep the suits, I would be tempted to compete even at the cost of my times never counting simply for the sake of variety and to take advantage of something that USAS does not offer currently.
For me - retroactive DQs (with NO notification to the swimmer) AND tech suit ban combined are not a very appealing combination.
AND, when I've attempted to do further investigation, I'm baffled at the mysterious period between preliminary and final Top 10 publications. Sometimes one can get times in and sometimes one cannot (I've had both instances happen to me.)
For example
Meet #1 2009 - All swims from this meet not included in Prelim T10. I let the appropriate people know immediately. Results included in Final T10.
Meet #2 2009 - All swims from this meet not included in Prelim T10. Let appropriate people know also within that same time frame. Was told it was too late to do anything.
I'm sure there must be a detailed process that published somewhere regarding how this all works from an administrative standpoint. It's not included in our regular rule book or is it? Thanks for any feedback on this.
Out of curiosity, what are the main causes for divergence between the top ten and the top ten times that could be calculated automatically from the meet results database?
I joined a USMS team back in 1998, after finding out about it from doing some triathlons. Within 2-3 months after joining, I did my first meet. I don't remember specifically, but I do know that I wore pretty much a normal suit I would have worn for workout (perhaps a newer one), and there were few if any people there wearing whatever line of tech suits was hot then. I continued to do meets 2-3 a year for the next 3-4 years, up until my team hosted USMS SCY Nationals in 2003. I showed up in my usual newish suit, and I was definitely in the minority. My guess would be 70% or more people wore whatever tech suits were hot then. It was very discouraging and I looked very out of place, and that was the last meet I swam in.
I also bike and run, and I can safely say I don't pay $2500 for any gear. A pair of running shoes goes for about $70, and the other things (shorts/shirts) are fairly cheap. I picked up a bike in December for $900. But those things I can use many many times. A pair of running shoes usually gives me 3-400 miles. I'd hope my bike will last me a min of 2-3 years.
While I certainly could have paid for a tech suit, I just couldn't rationalize spending $200+ for something that would save me tenths of seconds (while even 5 seconds for a 100 wouldn't put me near any top 10s), with an extremely limited lifespan. I'd rather use that money for a visit to see family. Some suits had prices $4-500, and for that I've flown to Europe.
Now that the rules are changing, I am planning to swim in a meet at some point. So I'm definitely a +1 for these rules, and I personally know several others in the same category (many triathletes actually). I certainly won't shell out for the newest line of acceptable tech suits, but will use a newish normal workout suit.
Makes sense to me Tim. However, I personally found that competing in triathlon was exponentially more expensive than competing in swimming. And I did not get top of the line tri gear - not even close.
I joined a USMS team back in 1998, after finding out about it from doing some triathlons. Within 2-3 months after joining, I did my first meet. I don't remember specifically, but I do know that I wore pretty much a normal suit I would have worn for workout (perhaps a newer one), and there were few if any people there wearing whatever line of tech suits was hot then. I continued to do meets 2-3 a year for the next 3-4 years, up until my team hosted USMS SCY Nationals in 2003. I showed up in my usual newish suit, and I was definitely in the minority. My guess would be 70% or more people wore whatever tech suits were hot then. It was very discouraging and I looked very out of place, and that was the last meet I swam in.
Glad you are going to do a meet! They are quite fun!
We had very similar experiences but I guess we just processed them differently. I too wore the poly practice suits for my first few years of masters and also felt a bit out of place at nationals wearing my $30 dolphin suit while flanked on either side with girls in the latest tech suit. I had a great time with that!
Question for you, though. Do you believe you are typical in either athletic skill or income? You mentioned getting a new Corvette in another thread, so obviously you might be able to afford this equipment while lots of others cannot. And just to clarify, I'm not on the bandwagon that says the suits should be banned because they make the sport too expensive. I'm only bringing this up because we're discussing what factors could turn someone off from competing.
Well, re: athletic skill, I feel below average in triathlon (as I placed around average or below in my competitions). Swimming - above the average. :) Other sports - pretty questionable. My bowling is atrocious.
Just stating that for me I spent lots more $$$$'s on triathlon than on swimming. Not sure what my new car has to do with this conversation.
My point was that I don't see at all how swimming is more expensive than triathlon.
I've been swimming USMS meets since 2001 and haven't experienced any of this; the only absence of times appearing in T10 was from some events swum at a dually-sanctioned USAS/USMS meet (once). Granted, most of them have been in Arizona, a few in California and then Nationals, but I've always found USMS meets very well run. As far as Top 10 times, pool measurements, etc., it's certainly cool to get into the Top 10 and I'd be lying if I said that I didn't try to train to get higher, beat certain times and certain people, BUT, if my times didn't happen to get in there (e.g., my 400 LCM free and 100 LCM fly from the same USAS meet where my 200 free and 200 IM were recorded), that's no big deal. I generally race in the same pools that the USAS meets are in, so I know the courses are 'legit.' I'm also first and foremost comparing my times to my other times.
I agree in that it's not a big deal until it keeps happening over and over. Would you really feel the same way if 20 different swims were thrown out?
Qualifying times at Nationals are intimidating to newbies. The very name "Nationals", for that matter, is intimidating. So let's just call it a Swim Fest and eliminate qualifying times. And while we're at it, maybe some of you could stop swimming so damn fast. It's intimidating.
LOL straw man argument.
