When I started swimming masters a few years ago, I soon found myself wanting some time standards to compare myself against. Sure, tracking my own PRs is motivating, but I also wanted some sort of objective mark to measure myself against.
There is the Top 10 list, of course, but I'm not close enough to those times for them to serve as realistic motivation. Nationals qualifying times provide a slightly lower bar, but these are still out of many masters' reach. It seems like there should be some sort of time standards that are more widely applicable -- like the A, AA, ... motivational times in kids' age group swimming.
I did use those USA Swimming motivational times for a while, but I got tired of comparing myself to 12-year-olds. Eventually I decided to create my own masters' motivational time standards, using the same method that is used for the kids.
I have really enjoyed using these motivational times over the past couple of years, and I'm guessing they might be useful to others as well. Especially for those, like me, who are competitive enough to be motivated by a quantitative benchmark, but not fast enough to aspire to the Top 10 list.
I have just updated the SCY list, and figured I would post it here for others to use.
Please enjoy. I'd also love to hear any feedback.
Although the people who frequent the forums are not necessarily a representative slice of the USMS membership, I have been moderately surprised at the positive response to your table. I might have predicted the opposite, since some people might not want to be reminded of their age-group days or don't want to think of masters being as "serious" as age-group swimming.
I'm surprised too, actually. This table probably appeals most to those who need more outlets for their competitive side.
Probably those with a merely healthy dose of competitiveness just skipped this thread, or are biting their tongue. Not that internet forum-dwellers are usually known for saying nothing when they have nothing nice to say. What a polite group this must be...
I was looking at the state records here in Michigan the other day and noticed that we have some comparatively weak SCM records for this very reason. There were only 2 SCM meets in 2009 compared to 9 SCY meets.
I have actually used the motivational time standards (or could equally well use Chris' swim rating calculator) for this exact purpose. I'm a breaststroker and can't touch the AAAA state records in those events. But some of the SCM records were BB or A in less popular events.
What do you think the odds are that the two best and most active, mathematically proficient, swim-data curve fitters would both be from the south and have surnames beginning with St?
Better than the odds that they'd also both have the same profession.
I'll point out, though, that my table only required addition and multiplication -- purely 4th grade arithmetic. Chris' nonlinear least squares curve-fitting with power laws requires at least high school algebra.
St. Chris, for his part, knows of this other formula, but it is possible that St. Steve does not. It's an age regression swimming time calculator that Phil Arcuni posted a number of years back on this forum, that is, in the pre-speed suit era.
You are correct in assuming my ignorance, so thanks for the link. The only age-based normalization formulas I knew of before this thread were specific to track & field, so it's great to have swimming-specific ones.
Would either of your fellows care to turn your keen mathematical minds to the job of predicting "equivalent times" with and without such suits--and do so before we need to wait several years for new data to filter in upon which your new curves can be fitted and hung?
Not a chance. I don't know a B70 from a B52, having never been inside either one. My table adopts an "ignorance is bliss" approach on the question of tech suits.
Posted these next to the age groupers national cuts times...I know some of the youngster are surprised that A) Old farts still race and 2) some of them are faster than they are!
No need to justify them, in my opinion. These are for motivation, not for validation. And so my special request is for no adjustment for fastsuits. I don't want a handicapped table or percentile calculator; I want one that will MOTIVATE me, regardless of suit type.
Michelle, as a former Pittsburgher, you of all people could benefit from the inclusion of the effect of Complex (Imaginary) Numbers:
i = SQRT(-1)
i^2 = -1
1/i = -i
SQRT(i) = SQRT(1/2) + SQRT(1/2)i
I have thusly incorporated this into my NFL rankings, and the Steelers have managed to win yet another Superbowl this year, despite not making the playoffs.
Talk about motivating!
I think the B-A-AA etc. system probably means more to those of us who swam age group/USA swimming then someone new to masters, but it is nice to have some type of guideline to figure where you are swimming (in relation to top times). Especially nice for those of us who swim in somewhat isolated areas and don't see really fast competition on a regular basis.
No need to justify them, in my opinion. These are for motivation, not for validation. And so my special request is for no adjustment for fastsuits. I don't want a handicapped table or percentile calculator; I want one that will MOTIVATE me, regardless of suit type.
My times are better for lcm than either scy or scm. Is that because there's more competition in short course meets? Maybe it means my turns need more work?
:bouncing:
