Masters Motivational Times

Does anybody have an updated Motivational Times Chart for any/all courses they can post here? I am still referring to old charts from 2010 and would like to see updated charts; especially now that I am competing in several new events. Steve, I know I have asked you this before, but... Do you plan to update your charts? :banana: :cheerleader: Please??? :D Anyone know if this has been done? If so, please forward the link -

we dont need any such thing in masters. This seems somewhat presumptuous. It sounds like you don't find much value in it, so you assume it has no value for others. We're all motivated in different ways. Many are in masters purely for fitness and health. Others are after TT times or world records. Different strokes for different folks and all that...

Hey Swimosaur, I thought about doing this as well but it kind of feels like a time sink to me. I work better with databases anyway and html scraping isn't something I do a lot. Best I can tell, he uses the USAS methodology for computing times: motivational time = Seed time * Time standard adjustment USAS uses the 16th fastest swim for each age group/event. The Masters were done using the average time for all 6th place to 10th place times for the previous 3 years. Seems complicated to me... why not just use the seed time as the 10th fastest swim for a given year? The time standard adjustments would be as follows: AAAA = 1.05 AAA = 1.10 AA = 1.15 A = 1.20 BB = 1.30 B = 1.40 If you put in the work, it becomes the Swimosaur motivational times so you can change it up however you want.

I think I can do this. ... Does anyone know what that method is? I think it's something like, "AAAA = three year average of 10th place time plus 10% for each category", but that could be wrong. Before I start, I'd like to know that I'm calculating the right thing. The key information is in the earlier posts in this thread. Here are the key ones: forums.usms.org/showthread.php forums.usms.org/showthread.php forums.usms.org/showthread.php forums.usms.org/showthread.php forums.usms.org/showthread.php Using the all-time 10th place time instead of a 3-year moving average of the 6-10th place times would produce a more stable table. It would be somewhat harder to extract the needed information, however, because there is no all-time top-10 list on the USMS web site (that I know of, correct me if I am wrong) so you would have to sort through the data for all the years. On the other hand, using the exact same base time as the USMS NQTs would be desirable, because AA (or AAA) would then correspond exactly to NQT. IMO, both NQT and the motivational times ought to be based on the all-time 10th place time so that they are more stable and just gradually tighten over the years instead of jumping around. I recognize, however, that the NQTs are official USMS standards and these motivational times are not so one "governing body" doesn't control both. That being the case, it's probably better that the motivational standards be set in a stable way, than to have them exactly match NQTs. EDIT: Oh and one other thing; I hope everyone who is eagerly awaiting the updated motivational times is mentally prepared for the fact that they are almost certain to be a lot tougher.

... html scraping isn't something I do a lot ... It's even more fun than that! Not just HTML on the input but rtf (or pdf) on the output! I am reminded of a quote, "Never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." (George Bernard Shaw). I am indulging my inner pig. I read the USAS methodology link. It does seem overly complicated. But I get the idea.

Given some of Karl's info, I think it might be easiest to grab seed times from reverse engineering 2014 NQTs. There's some funky things you would have to account for in some of the 70+ age divisions due to a lack of TT times but at least the data is all there and easy to grab.

This seems somewhat presumptuous. It sounds like you don't find much value in it, so you assume it has no value for others. We're all motivated in different ways. Many are in masters purely for fitness and health. Others are after TT times or world records. Different strokes for different folks and all that... i think of it as a kids thing. we arent kids any more...thats why its called masters. :D

i think of it as a kids thing. we arent kids any more...thats why its called masters. :D Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect yours, sunruh. But in this case I agree with Kirk that everyone is motivated in different ways. And I can certainly see value in giving people motivational times to strive for in order "To encourage and promote improved physical fitness and health in adults" which is the #1 objective listed for US Masters Swimming on page 5 in this document: www.usms.org/.../building.pdf

I may not need it; however, the chart comes in handy when I tackle a new event or one I don't often swim. The chart helps me compare how I am doing in that particular event compared to my core events, and it gives me goals to shoot for. It also helps me compare how I am doing in non-core events compared to each other, such as my 400 IM compared to my (extremely slow) 200 fly. Thanks to the chart, I have learned which events I was better in that I thought- and events that, well, never mind that negativity! :afraid:FYI - I believe Stevenson created this rating calculator www.vaswim.org/.../rcalc.cgi which is a little more user effort but is more detail (rating 2 decimal accuracy ) I find it useful in comparing events.

i think of it as a kids thing. we arent kids any more...thats why its called masters. :D It's a kids thing for you because you achieved all those standards when you were a kid. Lots of people in masters did not. Heck, many never swam competitively when they were kids. For them it's not a "been there, done that" like it is to those of us who've been in the sport forever!