In general, when I swim with a group, I notice that I usually am at the front on kick sets without fins. When, however, we have sets with fins, I usually fall behind. Why is this?
The other day, I was swimming with the high school group and they were begging to do a 10 x 100 kick with fins on 1:10. No way could I make this. When I suggested doing 10 x 100 kick on 1:45 without fins, nobody thought they could make it. In fact, the coach gave a small set of 100s on 1:45 that was without fins and I thought it was pretty easy while the others could barely make it.
In any case, why do I stink on fin work when I am a pretty strong kicker without the fins? Is this a bad thing?
In any case, why do I stink on fin work when I am a pretty strong kicker without the fins? Is this a bad thing?
No it's not a bad thing. They don't allow fins in meets.
How are you swimming with the fins? I find if I underwater SDK on my back 12.5's and kick on my back a yards, roll at the flags and flip turn, I can move with fins.
No it's not a bad thing. They don't allow fins in meets.
How are you swimming with the fins? I find if I underwater SDK on my back 12.5's and kick on my back a yards, roll at the flags and flip turn, I can move with fins.
Probably wouldn't hurt me to spend more time underwater.
When we do swim sets with fins, I don't have the drop that everybody else does. Maybe 4 seconds a 50.
I think it means you are getting alot more out of your kick than most people. The artificial enhancement makes big time jumps for weak kickers because they are so slow without them. You are fast both ways but just a little faster with the fins. This is a good thing I'd say. :agree:
My kicking problem is the opposite, pretty good with fins, totally suck without. Recently had a "Eureka" moment, in my teens and twenties I body surfed sometimes for hours a day, pretty much kicking with fins the entire time, sometimes just cruising but other times really slammin'.
When we do swim sets with fins, I don't have the drop that everybody else does. Maybe 4 seconds a 50.
I don't do enough fin work to know what my drop is, but I suspect I am similar to you. I certainly cannot drop my interval by over 30 seconds; that's crazy. (If this is a group of high-schoolers who can't make 100's kick on the 1:45, they need to do more work without fins.)
I am a little tentative with fins because I worry about protecting my ankles and knees, and kicking hard with fins puts stress on them. When I overcome this fear/hesitancy, it makes a pretty big difference in my speed with the fins. Maybe you're subconsciously holding back?
Also maybe your kick without fins is a high-frequency/low-amplitude kind of thing, and the fins make it harder for you to have a rapid kick (this may be what Chaos is saying too) and you slow down. Similarly, when I put paddles on I have better DPS but I have a slower turnover, and the two effects almost exactly cancel out. But I know plenty of people who are greatly helped by using paddles.
I tend to agree with others, though: I would rather have YOUR problem than THEIRs. You can't race with fins on.
Lots of great analysis here and it gives me much to think about. I do have incredibly weak ankles, so I do wonder if that might not be a factor. In fact, a podiatrist noted that in order to walk, my ankles are so weak that I've had to make up for it in my hip adductor/abductor area. Not only are my ankles weak, they are not very flexible.
Another thing, a friend mentioned that when I kick, perhaps I use my core and hip abductors/adductors more than most. Could the problem be that I am overly dependent on core and hip adductor/abductor muscles for my kick and thus the fins don't make a big difference?
My one rep max on the hip adductor machine is the entire stack, so I'm thinking the bizarre strength must come from overcompensation. Gee, I wish some of it would pan out on breaststroke, but no such luck. Great for cycling - maybe I should go back to that!
The kids have a mental block. They are more than capable of doing the set.
One exercise I find that not only helps my core but my kicking is the Captain Chair Leg Lifts. Its that piece of equipment that you stand in, then hang, with your elbows & forearms on pad while gripping hand grips....you legs hang, then you bring your legs straight up as if you were sitting on the floor with your legs in front of you. Great for building up thigh and some of the hip muscles.
For ankles, just calf raises should help some. I also try to work on the flexiblity of my ankles by sitting and rocking back on them (in socks on a pad/carpet).
Thanks for these, Lump. I've been slack in the gym lately, so I need to get in there and do these, especially the calf raises. I'll try working on the ankles for a bit of time and see if it helps.
for me fins and paddles seem to increase the muscle load while decreasing the aerobic cost of swimming. someone with average v02 but very good strength(male/female, sprinter/distance?) should get more benefit from this shift.
fins seem to forgive problems like bad body position so they should really help a strong swimmer with technique issues.
also, fin kicking a lot does not seem to benefit naked kicking and vice-versa so you should be better at the one you do more of. :2cents:
Sure do agree that the one we do the most of is the one we are usually the best at!
