USMS Suit Rules
Saturday, September 19, 2009
Suit Debacle - USMS Convention Edition
**UPDATE: Click here for a scan of some of what was voted on
Ok so I just got out of the final meeting of this year's house of delegates. The last action item was, dun dun dun.... swimsuits. It finally happened. Up until this point hardly anyone mentioned it, it was like bringing up religion or politics in casual conversation... not a good idea. Once the floor opened up the comments got pretty hot for a little while.
2 major things went down here but I will forewarn you that all this may be completely meaningless depending on how things go down next week with the FINA Masters Technical Committee.
1st off, the USMS rules committee proposed suit restrictions. THIS IS A RECOMMENDATION NOT A RULE!!! The short version is men and women get the same suits, shoulder to knee in textile (the definition of which is tbd). Zippers and drawstrings are allowed. Modesty suits are still ok and taping is only allowed for medical reasons.
2nd we voted on how long to keep suits in regards to short course yards season. In case you forgot we're the only country that bothers with SCY. The 2 choices that people were voting for were:
1. dropping the tech suits as soon as the FINA Masters swim wear rule is adopted
2. Keep tech suits for SCY until June 1st (when SCY season ends) or later if FINA adopts no standard.
The vote was much closer than I would have expected. 101 to 93 in favor of dropping the suits earlier rather than later. Boo. I still think FINA has plenty of flip flop left in it and this was probably a whole lot of fighting for nothing. We'll see how it goes down. From what I understand we still get to ride out the rest of SCM season in techsuits.
More info will be coming out on this in the next couple of weeks, but I want to remind you all again that this still doesn't mean anything per se. There are a lot of variables floating around, but I wanted to share what's gone down so far.
Argue amongst yourselves, I have a banquet to get to!
from
www.robaquatics.com/.../suit-debacle-usms-convention-edition.html
I just want this whole issue behind us. I'm proud that our House of Delegates came to such a reasonable compromise. I understand Jim's perspective to keep the tech suits legal through the SCY season (so that people can really get their money's worth from suits bought in the last year) but on the other hand people have known for a long time now that a suit ban was likely.
People are very passionate about this issue and I have personally engaged in meaningless debates with people who hold their views strongly and will not be convinced by my arguments any more than I will be convinced by theirs. I've decided I'm giving up tilting at that particular windmill.
Most of all, I look forward to discussions on this board and the broader swimming community returning primarily to swimming (technique, training, etc.) and getting away from the heavy focus on swim suits.
People are very passionate about this issue and I have personally engaged in meaningless debates with people who hold their views strongly and will not be convinced by my arguments any more than I will be convinced by theirs. I've decided I'm giving up tilting at that particular windmill.
Most of all, I look forward to discussions on this board and the broader swimming community returning primarily to swimming (technique, training, etc.) and getting away from the heavy focus on swim suits.
Yes, it's unlikely that purists and techies (or techy-purists, according to Geek) can agree, as their views have fundamentally different premises.
If you want more technique and training, you need only glance at the blogs where there are often avid discussions of such things and virtually nothing about suits.
I agree with Jim's point. It's not about knowing that there may be an upcoming ban. (And did we really know that to a certainty, as FINA said it wouldn't apply to masters?) Jim's suggested timing is more about fairness. Some have already swum SCM times and SCY times in their tech suits. If the suits are subsequently banned, the season end results would be somewhat skewed.
I understand Jim's perspective to keep the tech suits legal through the SCY season (so that people can really get their money's worth from suits bought in the last year) but on the other hand people have known for a long time now that a suit ban was likely.
It has nothing to do with the upcoming ban or to get money's worth from the suit. It has everything to do with the timing of the ban, however.
Banning them, once the season has started (both SCM and SCY have commenced, btw), means some people get swims in with the suit that count and some won't. I don't see any fairness in that scenario.
It has nothing to do with the upcoming ban or to get money's worth from the suit. It has everything to do with the timing of the ban, however.
Banning them, once the season has started (both SCM and SCY have commenced, btw), means some people get swims in with the suit that count and some won't. I don't see any fairness in that scenario.
Absolutely agree.
"Meaningless"? You have hurt my feelings. And I was ready to concede that the Blue Seventy Nero Comp bodyskin is really just an ultrathin wetsuit. But it sure is fast.
He's hurt my feelings too ...
If the current USMS proposal is for suits to be .8 mm in thickness and the B70 is less than .4, I guess we can look forward to fat textile suits instead of ultra thin tech suits? (Unlike you, having just swam in a squashy wetsuit, I just cannot classify a B70 as anything but a swim skin ... Sorry in advance for hurting your feelings.)
Banning them, once the season has started (both SCM and SCY have commenced, btw), means some people get swims in with the suit that count and some won't. I don't see any fairness in that scenario.
IMO the only fair scenario is to have a concrete date that is known well in advance (though it doesn't necessarily have to coincide with the end of the season). That gives people who want rested swims in the suits a chance to get them, to match those who already have done so. This is the reason I voted for the third option presented at the USMS convention (with the June 1 date, though I personally would prefer an earlier date).
"Meaningless"? You have hurt my feelings. And I was ready to concede that the Blue Seventy Nero Comp bodyskin is really just an ultrathin wetsuit. But it sure is fast.
Alas... :doh:
Makes more sense to impose bans at the end of seasons
ie:
SCM on 1/1/10 since swims have to be done on 12/31/09 or sooner
SCY on 6/1/10 since swims have to be done on 05/31/09 or sooner
seems reasonable
It has nothing to do with the upcoming ban or to get money's worth from the suit. It has everything to do with the timing of the ban, however.
Banning them, once the season has started (both SCM and SCY have commenced, btw), means some people get swims in with the suit that count and some won't. I don't see any fairness in that scenario.
It has nothing to do with the upcoming ban or to get money's worth from the suit. It has everything to do with the timing of the ban, however.
Banning them, once the season has started (both SCM and SCY have commenced, btw), means some people get swims in with the suit that count and some won't. I don't see any fairness in that scenario.
Got it. But to be clear, the slight majority voted against this. Looking at the USMS meet result database (and I understand that database doesn't always reflect EVERY meet) there have been a grand total of two SCY swim meets in the 2010 season. www.usms.org/.../index.php
At one of those meets, there were 25 total swimmers and 69 total "splashes". At the other, there were only 18 total swimmers, but a whopping 102 splashes.
Who knows why those who voted for the immediate ban did so, but if I were voting my vote would have been based on the view that I can live with "inequity" of these 170 or so outlier swims rather than compound the tech suit "problem" for thousands more swims during our biggest and arguably most important season. (My view stands even if there were more meets that have occurred and are not yet in the database--the simple fact of the matter is that the vast majority of the meets are yet to come.)
I'm more sympathetic to your view on SCM but just want to rip the bandaid off here.
Sigh. I can't even believe I'm doing it again! Look, I'm not trying to argue and I understand your perspective. I have now tried to explain at least one reason for holding the opposite one (which is the one that appears to have won the day). I don't really want to argue. OK, I'm out of here.
Another reason against prolonging the ban until the end of the scy season is suit availability. If at our championship meet in May, the lzrs and x-glides are still legal, but those companies are no longer making them/ran out of the common sizes, then only those swimmers that still have them can use them. That doesn't seem to make for a level competition.
It's one thing to compare times from october to may in the top ten, but you'd hope that at our championship meet everyone would have the same suit advantage whatever that turns out to be.
