Yet...... another comment on "elitism" in masters swimming. This ongoing battle of two imaginary groups....... the selfish former elite swimmers and the non elite counter parts.
Yes..... The Evil Smith and I have taken great pleasure throughout the last decade trying to secretly split USMS into these two groups. Our efforts to perpetuate this divide and fuel our intolerance for "learners" is now being undermined..... :-)
One Big Happy Family: Marcinkowski’s Masters
reachforthewall.com/.../
"Butcher, Zerkle and others say numbers have soared because Marcinkowski has tried to strip the elitism from masters swimming, often thought to be populated with former competitive stars who have little tolerance for learners."
Former Member
Honestly, their level makes novices feel uncomfortable.
Most ex-serious swimmers are just happy to be able to swim for fun w/o the pressure of a coach or team counting on them and yelling at them. They truly have a lot in common w/ novices. I think this attitude does get projected, but the speed of the top swimmers is what intimidates beginners.
Agreed..... many ex-serious swimmers are indeed happy to just be able to swim for fun, excercise and commaraderie.
but... just because a new swimmer feels the talent in the pool or the workout/agenda is competitive or daunting, doesn't mean there exists elitism by ex-serious swimmers.
Geek,
Runners are interesting to watch in the pool. The two sports may be great for general cross training and cardio purposes, but they never seem to translate into direct improvements from one to the other. How so many great runners can be so pathetic with a kick board is interesting..... the reverse (swimmers who run) doesn't seem quite as bad.
Lots of people I know like the idea of a "master's team" but when it comes down to swimming FREQUENTLY enough to be able to survive a proper workout they just can't cut it. I think that's why many people turn to open lap swim where they control their own distance and pace.
In the winter our team has all 8 lanes for 1 hour. There is always 1 lane where members can lap swim if they want. It's a little crazier in the summer; we usually only have 3 or 4 lanes. Somehow no matter how crowded it is in the the wall lane turns into a lap lane and the "proper workout" group is squeezed into 2 lanes. (although it is 50 meters)
Most of the 'lap" people never swim in meets but they are great participants in other aspects of the club. (fund raising, partying, having fun) :angel:
Yet...... another comment on "elitism" in masters swimming. This ongoing battle of two imaginary groups....... the selfish former elite swimmers and the non elite counter parts.
Yes..... The Evil Smith and I have taken great pleasure throughout the last decade trying to secretly split USMS into these two groups. Our efforts to perpetuate this divide and fuel our intolerance for "learners" is now being undermined..... :-)
One Big Happy Family: Marcinkowski’s Masters
reachforthewall.com/.../
"Butcher, Zerkle and others say numbers have soared because Marcinkowski has tried to strip the elitism from masters swimming, often thought to be populated with former competitive stars who have little tolerance for learners."
This is the #1 reason I now train myself/train alone. I was once a former world class swimmer, but that is beside the point. I'm now 38, slow (at least I think so), and its not ALL about the competition. Its unfortunate that the Master's coach in my area is way too pompous for my taste.
I've actually thought about starting my own team based on the Curl-Burke model. Finding folks is not the problem, for me all the other logistical things are. I've coached kids from 4-18 yrs old back in my 20's so I definitely have the patience and knowledge to teach any level of newbie or experience swimmer.
I recently joined a masters club & am finding it a bit disappointing in some ways.
First, because the bulkhead is always up (dividing the pool into two 25m pools), and the whole reason I joined this particular club was that the sessions were held in a 50m pool. If I'd known, I probably would have just joined up with the master-type class at the YWCA, registered as an "unattached" and saved my money.
Second, because there doesn't seem to be any actual coaching in the form of stroke correction so far, just workouts. (It is only three weeks so far, admittedly.)
Third, because the intervals are really short and for the most part not very strenuous. I find the kick sets strenuous, but not the actual swimming. The one night there was a tougher one - 200m on 4:00, which is eye-balls out for me - I couldn't swim continuously because there were always people clinging to the wall or bulkhead at the end of each length. I'd have to wait for them to leave, let them get a few meters out, then start the next length. Flip turns, not that I do them well anyway, are impossible in this situation. Supposedly, the ability to swim 200m continuously is the only swim requirement for joining this club, but I suspect there are a few people in my group who don't quite meet it.
I don't know if I should move up to the next fastest group and use fins for the kick sets, or just insist on going ahead of the two swimmers in my current group who are slower than me. The others seem to be about the same speed as me.
I'm sort of hoping they take us aside at some point and ask what our individual goals are, because this doesn't seem to be great training for moving up to 5k distance in open water, which is what I'm hoping to do.
Not having any experience with swim clubs, I have no idea if this club is typical or not.
Yet...... another comment on "elitism" in masters swimming. This ongoing battle of two imaginary groups....... the selfish former elite swimmers and the non elite counter parts.
Then I'm really in the dead zone being a former non elite who really enjoys pushing myself and competing now.
Unfortunately, after about 10 years of masters experience all over the country, I've found these things in masters:
No coach on deck with perhaps a written workout if you're lucky
No stroke or technique instruction
Workouts geared towards triathletes
Very little speed work or quality work
Minimal kick sets
Lack of pool time and/ or space for masters
No SDK work
Lack of variation in workouts. For example, there is warm up always followed by a pull set followed by a fin set
No instruction for weight or dryland programs
It has been very challenging to excel as a non-elite with these kind of workouts and the attitude that everyone seems to have of, "Oh, it's just masters." I see the opposite issue in that one is labeled as "too serious" or "too uptight" if you actually want to consistently do workouts geared for your specific goals. Just sayin'
And yes, there are many positives that I don't need to name here, but its been a huge process to get what I need. I can see why masters can seem overwhelming to many.
I recently joined a masters club & am finding it a bit disappointing in some ways.
First, because the bulkhead is always up (dividing the pool into two 25m pools), and the whole reason I joined this particular club was that the sessions were held in a 50m pool. If I'd known, I probably would have just joined up with the master-type class at the YWCA, registered as an "unattached" and saved my money.
Second, because there doesn't seem to be any actual coaching in the form of stroke correction so far, just workouts. (It is only three weeks so far, admittedly.)
Third, because the intervals are really short and for the most part not very strenuous. I find the kick sets strenuous, but not the actual swimming. The one night there was a tougher one - 200m on 4:00, which is eye-balls out for me - I couldn't swim continuously because there were always people clinging to the wall or bulkhead at the end of each length. I'd have to wait for them to leave, let them get a few meters out, then start the next length. Flip turns, not that I do them well anyway, are impossible in this situation. Supposedly, the ability to swim 200m continuously is the only swim requirement for joining this club, but I suspect there are a few people in my group who don't quite meet it.
I don't know if I should move up to the next fastest group and use fins for the kick sets, or just insist on going ahead of the two swimmers in my current group who are slower than me. The others seem to be about the same speed as me.
I'm sort of hoping they take us aside at some point and ask what our individual goals are, because this doesn't seem to be great training for moving up to 5k distance in open water, which is what I'm hoping to do.
Not having any experience with swim clubs, I have no idea if this club is typical or not.
My experiences are...
* Our pool is set up long course April through August when training for long-course meets. September through March the bulkhead is in to train for short-course meets and to make life easier since we share with high school teams that only swim short-course. It also provides more lanespace short-course and it's easier to manage a group with diverse skill levels.
* Most coaches will vary workouts over the course of a season. Early fall is generally a time to work on establishing an endurance base. Later on the swimmers will add more intensity and work on racing skills.
* Even within a club the coaching can vary depending on who is filling the coach position. Each coach will have his own philosophy; or maybe the club is searching for a replacement coach and "making do" with a warm body on deck. Some new/younger coaches can be very intimidated with adults who question and negotiate each set.
* Be polite but assertive about taking your proper position in the correct lane. New swimmers may not "get it" that they are interfering with your workout and might be focusing on survival rather than fitting into the "flow" of the lane.
* Talk to your coach ! (He can't read your mind.)
Then I'm really in the dead zone being a former non elite who really enjoys pushing myself and competing now.
Unfortunately, after about 10 years of masters experience all over the country, I've found these things in masters:
No coach on deck with perhaps a written workout if you're lucky
No stroke or technique instruction
Workouts geared towards triathletes
Very little speed work or quality work
Minimal kick sets
Lack of pool time and/ or space for masters
No SDK work
Lack of variation in workouts. For example, there is warm up always followed by a pull set followed by a fin set
No instruction for weight or dryland programs
It has been very challenging to excel as a non-elite with these kind of workouts and the attitude that everyone seems to have of, "Oh, it's just masters." I see the opposite issue in that one is labeled as "too serious" or "too uptight" if you actually want to consistently do workouts geared for your specific goals. Just sayin'.....
You're not in the dead zone. Many swim with your ambition. I wish I had more these days. This issue was merely brought out by an article I read, and it implied something that has been complained about off and on for years in masters..... but noteably.... not by the accused.... i.e. the so called elite swimmers.
Your complaints are frequently valid. I have witnessed many of them over the years. In the end though..... it's just you and your willingness to get to the pool and do something productive every day despite the program. I've been swimming by myself for many years now. I am always the least prepared in the final heat at masters nationals. And although it has been difficult and unmotivating to keep swimming, I seem to keep showing up.... :-)
Sure there are experienced swimmers at the meets, but they seem to be way outnumbered by more everyday average folks who are there to have fun.
Also like to point out that it's been my experience that many of the experienced swimmers are also there to have fun, myself included. The only time I see "not fun" as a facial expression is on the starting blocks. Even then, I see many experienced swimmers trying a new event or new stroke, and at least for myself I have a smile on my face because I don't have any previous time to measure up to.
:banana:
