What should USMS do about the suits?

I know we don't know the whole story yet, but I wonder why pre 2006/7 textile body suits wasn't a option? I don't have an issue going back, however based on this board but also what I have heard on my team and especially among older masters swimmers in Colorado that without the textile body suit they will no longer compete. If they no longer compete they won't need to be a member of USMS, which is not really a growth strategy. I just meant it wasn't a choice in the poll! :) That's exactly why I would be willing to accept that compromise.

By the way, before the FINA committee can come to a view, each of the member organizations needs to come to a view. So it may be premature to say we are stuck with USMS's view. This might just be USMS's proposal for the greater FINA masters leadership to consider, similar to the way that USA-S proposed no more body suits for the "elite" swimmers. My guess is that we may still end up following the international Masters consensus if that consensus is something different than USMS's initial view.

Hate is such a strong emotion! I guess I should "hate" it when people think my view is not a legitimate one to hold as well. Sorry chief. I think the suits detract from my "pure" ability to get across the pool as fast as "I" can in a way that I can't justify. All the suits do is make a person go faster (and maybe look cool?). Is that the reason why you like them? Well, it's the the reason why I don't. Pure and simple. Save the hate for something that deserves it! You can certainly "hate" the fact that you won't get to wear the suit and have your times "count". Peace. I'm fine with "hate" as my word choice. I was objecting to the seemingly ubiquitous denunciation of tech suits/tech suit users as impure and immoral. I think that's ridiculous and, now, tedious. I don't castigate those who prefer not to use tech suits or otherwise claim their opinion is not legitimate. (I can "peaceably" disagree.) Unlike some, I am simply not opposed to technological advancement in the sport, and I feel perfectly pure partaking in it. Apart from the possible negative psychological effect of slower times, I don't think the lack of tech suits will have that much impact on most swimmers. If virtually everyone raced in them previously and no one does in the future, the race outcomes will likely be much the same. It may discourage some from competing, as we've heard, which would be unfortunate. I guess it could also potentially undermine the efficacy of the SDK. As an aside, I actually think B70s are significantly more economical than Pros. I appreciate fabric that is durable and doesn't rip easily. That's a key reason why I "like" the tech suits, though the speed is nice as well. The durability allows me to swim year round in them in all courses without breaking the bank. I don't see how they look any "cooler" than previous incarnations of body suits.

By the way, before the FINA committee can come to a view, each of the member organizations needs to come to a view. So it may be premature to say we are stuck with USMS's view. This might just be USMS's proposal for the greater FINA masters leadership to consider, similar to the way that USA-S proposed no more body suits for the "elite" swimmers. My guess is that we may still end up following the international Masters consensus if that consensus is something different than USMS's initial view. Thanks. Makes perfect sense. However, FINA, having issued some "purist" statements itself may be happy to hear USMS's view. USMS has to be one of the more powerful member organizations. I guess we have to hear how the other international members weigh in ...

I voted to follow FINA on the elites and it sounds like my view won. I would have lived with shoulders-to-ankles textile suits too, but that wasn't a choice and was only my compromise view any way. I know we don't know the whole story yet, but I wonder why pre 2006/7 textile body suits wasn't a option? I don't have an issue going back, however based on this board but also what I have heard on my team and especially among older masters swimmers in Colorado that without the textile body suit they will no longer compete. If they no longer compete they won't need to be a member of USMS, which is not really a growth strategy.

Since FINA has yet to define "textile" and is apparently still considering permitting chest coverage for men, USMS doesn't really know what they voted for. FINA may require all suits to be made out of lead for all we know.:bow:

Why are they even allowing Jammers if their intention is to have suits be truly about modesty only and not performance enhancement? A jammer will have a slight performance enhancement over a brief. Standards of modesty have evolved a little since I was a kid. This summer my son had a decent case of poison ivy on his thighs and was complaining that his jammer was aggravating it. I offered to run out and buy him a pair of briefs before his meet later that day. He gave me a horrified look and said "no way!"

Okay, I have an update from Convention about the suits. The FINA Masters Technical Committee is meeting Sept 25-26. USMS decided to send a recommendation (thru our umbrella organization USAS) and it was due this morning. The recommendation was, I believe, crafted by the USMS Rules Committee. To sum up: -- textile only (to be defined later, I guess) -- same coverage for men and women: knees to shoulder, no sleeves or neck -- zippers allowed -- limits of thickness (0.8mm) and buoyancy (0.5N) and permeability of material (80L/m^2/s) Here is the process. The FINA committee might accept this, might amend it, might disregard it, or whatever. Then somebody in USMS (I think the Board of Directors and the Rules Committee, but I might have that wrong) will decide whether to accept FINA's ruling and when to implement it. Implementation will probably be sooner rather than later (ie, certainly before SCY nationals, perhaps even before the end of the year). They won't wait until next Convention, for example. The suit itself isn't what I would have chosen -- I am okay with zippers but not with bodysuits for men -- but at this point I am mostly concerned with the process itself. At no point did the House of Delegates have an opportunity to discuss or vote on anything, nor will they if the process I described is how it works out. In the pre-convention packet, there was basically no mention of the suits, for example. A relatively small number of people will make this decision for USMS without formal feedback from the hoi polloi. Some of this is probably because of the timing of FINA's meeting. (Before the meeting, I had thought that the HOD would at least have some voice in the nature of USMS' recommendation.) One of the Rules Committee members I talked to had an interesting comment about FINA. He said that they regard masters swimming as a completely different sport from "regular" swimming, just like diving and water polo and synchro swimming (and yes, open water swimming) are different sports. This is their mentality in approaching regulations for masters and OW swimming.

Thanks Chris for the update. It's not my ideal choice either as it differs from usa-swimming and fina. I'm surprised that its going straight from committee to fina rather than including all of the delegates.

The recommendation was, I believe, crafted by the USMS Rules Committee. To sum up: -- textile only (to be defined later, I guess) -- same coverage for men and women: knees to shoulder, no sleeves or neck -- zippers allowed -- limits of thickness (0.8mm) and buoyancy (0.5N) and permeability of material (80L/m^2/s) It sounds like a pretty reasonable recommendation. I think USMS should do whatever FINA does, but I think FINA ultimately will adopt something along the same lines as this recommendation. Thanks for the update, Tim