put the swim at the end of the race. how about: run/ bike/ swim? are people dying in mass run start events? by the time people get to the swim, the field will be spread out and it will be easier to watch the swimmers.
That would be very dangerous. I often swim at a pool after my 16 mile bike commute. Sometimes, if my bike is not set up properly or if I'm dehydrated, my legs will cramp suddenly, without warning.
Unfortunately there was another death in Wisconsin:
www.jsonline.com/.../53884077.html
There are a couple of questions that come to mind.
What is the death rate per swimmer/mile in USMS sanctioned open water events vs the swim portion of USAT events?
Of the deaths, what percentage are health (e.g., heart attack) vs. "in over your head" issues?
Right now, triathlon related deaths are in the press in Wisconsin, so it may be more an issue of visibility than anything else.
Other than certifying the capability of each swimmer before the race, what can be done to ensure the safety of participants? I'm not an open water swimmer at all - give me a 50 in an 80 degree pool - so I'm probably the worst person to give an opinion on this. USMS has a pretty good track record, so we must either be attracting the right group to our swims, or we have safety measures in place that prevent the drownings.
The folks that are doing USMS open water swims are attracted to it because it is a swim event. Many folks are attracted to the triathlons because they view it as a bike/run event with a swim that have to get through to get to their main event. I'm forever hearing, "I just need to get through the swim." It is kind of like the guy that excels in fly, back, and free and wants to swim a fast I.M., yet never trains breaststroke. He thinks, "I'll just have to get through the breaststroke."
So, think of folks showing up to swim USMS open water swims like breaststrokers showing up to swim breaststroke, and think of triathlons like a swimmer showing up to swim an I.M. who hasn't done any training for breaststroke. Of course, a non-breaststroker won't drown on the breaststroke (although I come fairly close :)) while a non-swimmer who hasn't done any training for the swim runs the risk of drowning on the swim portion to the triathlon.
Still think a qualification process instead of a certification process would be the way to go.
It is kind of like the guy that excels in fly, back, and free and wants to swim a fast I.M., yet never trains breaststroke.
Hey now! No need to get personal.:)
Unfortunately there was another death in Wisconsin:
www.jsonline.com/.../53884077.html
There are a couple of questions that come to mind.
What is the death rate per swimmer/mile in USMS sanctioned open water events vs the swim portion of USAT events?
Of the deaths, what percentage are health (e.g., heart attack) vs. "in over your head" issues?
Right now, triathlon related deaths are in the press in Wisconsin, so it may be more an issue of visibility than anything else.
Other than certifying the capability of each swimmer before the race, what can be done to ensure the safety of participants? I'm not an open water swimmer at all - give me a 50 in an 80 degree pool - so I'm probably the worst person to give an opinion on this. USMS has a pretty good track record, so we must either be attracting the right group to our swims, or we have safety measures in place that prevent the drownings.
That's really sad...aren't there emergency floatation devices on the market for swimmers? I suppose they are too bulky to use in competition?
...aren't there emergency floatation devices on the market for swimmers? I suppose they are too bulky to use in competition?
www.triaids.com/How to Use.htm
I would prefer the swim at the end when I'm good and warmed up.
...
A late Winter tri I did had a pool swim and you had to put your 100 yard time for seeding. The guy in front of me put a :47 thinking you had to put your 25 time. He was like a speed bump.
I'd like the swim at the end too. There's a sprint tri series in our area that reverses the order for one of their events that takes place in March/April, mostly so people don't freeze coming out of the pool if they did it "normally." Unfortunately, they send runners off by age, so unless you're in one of the first groups, there's really no way to avoid a massive charlie foxtrot during the swim. Since the swim is a snake swim, to pass the really slow swimmers, I SDK'd underneath them.
There was a tri here in NC at one time that was a swim/bike/run/bike/swim but it was in a disgusting lake. I think that would be a good formula. They also have equalizer tris where each distance is theoretically similar in time. All that probably does is reduce the bike and run distances.
Whenever I do a pool tri, I always put a time that is way faster than what I can go because I know that at least half the people in front of me will screw up and put the wrong time and the other half are a lot slower than they think.
I'm forever hearing, "I just need to get through the swim." It is kind of like the guy that excels in fly, back, and free and wants to swim a fast I.M., yet never trains breaststroke. He thinks, "I'll just have to get through the breaststroke."
So, think of folks showing up to swim USMS open water swims like breaststrokers showing up to swim breaststroke, and think of triathlons like a swimmer showing up to swim an I.M. who hasn't done any training for breaststroke.
Still think a qualification process instead of a certification process would be the way to go.
"Don't hit me with the rollin-pin Elise" nailed it!
It used to be kinda ok for triathletes to be lousy swimmers when the race numbers were small. And most people who tackled triathlon still held a decent level of fitness and "athleticism".
In the old days of swimming IM races, a swimmer could kinda get by with a sub-par breaststroke and still win.
Neither applies now.
Lochte and Phelps had to work on their breaststrokes.
IMers have to be stroke specialists and be able to race at world level in all strokes to be the best in the IM.
The top professional triathletes rarely finish way back in the pack on the swim leg any longer.
If they swim off the back, they often pay dearly on the bike and have to lay down an amazing run to pass the earlier leaders.
What spectators generally don't see is the level of burnout, single race careers, and injuries that occur when a triathlete neglects training for the swim.
BRAVE and BOLD are two completely different qualities.
I like my athletes brave - and I'm sorry to admit I have been described as bold!
In New York City, open water swimmers have to be certified. I don't know why this couldn't be extended in some form to triathlon swimmers, either through master's swimming organizations or some triathlon group.
For example, to swim the Brooklyn Bridge (1K) next week, you basically have to be an experienced open water swimmer or complete a two-mile swim in a pool:
"Safety concerns require us to ensure that every participant in a NYC Swim swim event has adequate swim experience; thus we have set certain qualifying standards for participation in each of our events. You may register for a NYC Swim event even if you have not completed a qualifying swim, and your enrollment will be approved upon verification of your qualifying swim details. The experience requirement for participating in the Brooklyn Bridge Swim is as follows:
"The completion of any NYC Swim open water swim or Aquathlon since January 1, 2007
--- or ---
"Any DOCUMENTED timed open water swim race of 1.5 miles or more since January 1, 2007
--- or ---
"Any DOCUMENTED Triathlon with a timed 1.5 mile or longer open water swim since January 1, 2007
--- or ---
"Pool certification in a manner consistent with the sample template, which can be accessed on your user profile swimmer page, documenting the completion of a continuous 2-mile pool swim (3300 yards/3000 meters) in 1 hour and 30 minutes or better since January 1, 2009. Swim must take place in a traditional swimming pool; "Endless Pool" swims are not acceptable for qualification purposes.
"All pool certifications and qualifying swim information must be received by NYC Swim at least 14 days prior to the date of the race (no later than August 29, 2009). Swimmers who enroll after August 29th must submit their qualification information to NYC Swim within 24 hours of enrollment. Participants' qualifications will not be accepted, reviewed or approved on race day. "
My name is Tony Austin and I was the original author of the blog post "Triathletes should be certified by USMS" over at the SCAQ blog.
After reading all these thoughtful posts, I want to change the concept of certification to qualification. When you want to do the Kona Ironman you have to meet specific qualifications or you can't do it unless you win a lottery and even then, I am sure thy look at your athletic résumé
25-triathletes died this year, that's like two a month. That is an unacceptable casualty for a sport. How many masters swimmers died in a pool meet or an open water swim this year? Not many.
It's my belief that a triathlete must compete is a pool race and demonstrate they can meet a time standard, barring any disabilities or particular age group struggles, in such events as the 500-free, 1000-free, 1650-free or their meters counterpart.
When the time standard is met, the athlete can do their triathlon and both the promoter and the USAT will have some semblance of a safe swim.
I stand by the post, I think it is reasonable that if a triathlete is going to swim a mile-point-five from Alcatraz to Aquatic Park, or a 1000-meter lake swim in Wisconsin, a triathlete should meet a time standard in a pool.
The USMS has the infrastructure, a meet result database to make this fast, easy, and efficient.
It will grow both our sports, lower insurance premiums and make triathlons safer.
