flip turn and oxygen debt

Last fall I watched Michael Klueh of Texas go 15:15 for a 1650 (:55.45 pace). He was just playing around, but he was breathing every stroke the whole way as well as taking a breath into, and out of, every turn (except the last 50 where he dolphin kicked to the 15m line). This breathing pattern is something I've observed in most elite distance swimmers. That being said, at the elite level they all have great turns with excellent streamlines off the wall. Also, I'm sure in practice they do plenty of hypoxic breathing patterns and dolphin kicking off the walls. Oxygen is good.

I do a lot better when I breathe every stroke and take a quick breath going into the turn. Then I am in better shape to hold a decent streamline and get out of the turbulence before I start breathing again. My turnover rate is pretty slow so breathing every other stroke I just get too air-hungry. We do some breath-control sets at practice and I can usually handle them but only if I completely sacrifice speed and swim very relaxed (pace slower than warmdown pace).

Thanks! Fortunately I don't exhale during my turns or it is not that I am aware of, but there is a little bit messy in my pattern of controling my breathing out to be slow before rotating my head to catch air. Yes, I agree with some of you that breathing every 3 strokes especially adds more difficulty. Ever since I switched to this 4 years ago, I have struggled to fight for oxygen and the progress has been slow though I feel OK now when swiming forward but the problem remains for my turns. Coming into the wall, is your last breath happening before the last stroke or two? Before pushing off the wall, I think I should position my upper body closer to the surface for breaking earlier to catch my first breath?

I finally committed to learning to breathe bilaterally. It's been difficult... old dog, new tricks. I only intend to do this in practice and have been doing a lot of breathing every three strokes and some every five. Almost all my pull sets are done this way. I've definitely noticed an improvement in my stroke mechanics and balance. I've also learned to be a little more comfortable with the lack of oxygen. When I switch back to breathing every two strokes, such as on a harder interval or when racing, the additional oxygen is really appreciated. My advice: In practice breathe every three; when racing breathe every two.

Yes, I agree with some of you that breathing every 3 strokes especially adds more difficulty. Ever since I switched to this 4 years ago, I have struggled to fight for oxygen and the progress has been slow though I feel OK now when swiming forward but the problem remains for my turns. This may be the key here. Like you say, adaptation to this strict o2 diet (breathing every 3) took some time. It's the choice you made back then and although you adapted to it, now you're adding another significant challenge on top of it. Coming out of the wall, you're in need of more o2 but switching back to breathing every 3 doesn't satisfy this need (short term). You may continue to wait until adaptation kicks in. In the mean time, pushing off the wall, you may breathe every 2-3-2-3 (which is very close to pure "every 3") for a while. Or even 2-2-3- 2-2-3 still has this bilateral flavor while increasing the o2 intake significantly. Coming into the wall, is your last breath happening before the last stroke or two? before last, all the time, except in training where sometime it happens after last before flip. But off the wall always after 2nd. Before pushing off the wall, I think I should position my upper body closer to the surface for breaking earlier to catch my first breath? Not sure here (although that depends on how deep your upper body currently is). There should still be a glide after the push off and you should control the deep and the surfacing then, not before before pushing off. Tendency would be even to stay deeper nowadays, and kick butterfly, can you imagine? Nowadays, folks extend this hypoxic phase to favor underwater propulsion. Most breathe every two though. I am not questioning your breathing strategy since I do not know you well enough. But I might just remind you that breathing every 3 satisfies a technical need, but in the same time does have an impact on physiological demand. If you want best of both world, this 2-2-3 or 2-3-2-3 patter might be good compromise. As for the flips, the difference between times SCM and LCM lies in the quality of their execution. So clearly that's o2 deficit well spent.

I've seen some really fast distance swimmers (last heat at New England Masters championship meets) do open turns the whole 1000. Didn't seem to slow them down. I also have read somewhere that there is new thinking about breathing as you go into the wall for a turn, that it is OK to take a breath along with your last pull as you flip over. I'm with that approach. I agree with what I want to say Coyote says but I don't think that's his name: especially for long distances, say, a hypothetical 10K, just streamlining off the wall, no kicking whatsoever, for me, saved me a lot of energy. It was my rest period. But I'm not setting any records.

Thanks! I like these technique discussions and will practice what you said. =) Switching to breathing every 3 strokes was merely intended to develop and balance my stroke technique. When it comes to some level, I agree varying breathing pattern is one way to go, although in practice this hybrid method sometimes mess up my rhythm. Some elite swimmers, like Phelps, tend to dig deeper when pushing off the wall, which I heard is to avoid the turbulence near the surface. That requires quite a capability to tolerate hypoxic, and at least to me at this moment it is not always comfortable. Off the wall, I can do 3~5 or sometimes even more dolphin kicks if I am not concerned about oxygen, but limit to slight 1~2 if I hope to swim longer distance and feel more easy. By "positioning my upper body closer to the surface", I actually meant tumbling a little more angle before planting my feet on the wall, but not "before pushing off the wall" as what I said. I have the impression that if I don't keep this in mind, more often than not, my head is pointing slightly to the bottom of the pool and I will go off a little deep underwater and delay my breaking out.

I have the impression that if I don't keep this in mind, more often than not, my head is pointing slightly to the bottom of the pool and I will go off a little deep underwater and delay my breaking out. I understand now. On the topic of bilateral breathing pros/cons, I like Ernest Maglischo's take on this. Here are few extracts of his most recent book: Alternate breathing has been used by many world-class swimmers, *particulary females*. Its use is controversial, however, having both strong proponents and opponents among elite coaches and swimmers....... The most compelling argument against alternate breathing is that oxygen supply will be reduced. This may cause swimmers to fatigue earlier in races. This is obviously a very serious disadvantage that, potentially, could outweigh all of the advantages listed earlier, and for this reason I do not recommend that swimmers use alternate breathing in races. His position is reallly driven by priorities. Stroke mechanics is very important, but not as much as making sure we get sufficient supply of fuel (o2). Again, I do not want to try to convince you to change your breathing patterns. I just wanted you to know that this is a controversial topic. Logically the very first place where you will experiment unbearable o2 deficits is after each turn. If breathing strategy is inadequate, then this is where this strategy will hurt the most (after each turn).

Almost all my pull sets are done this way. Nice approach. O2 requirements are much lower while swimming with a Pull. I've seen some really fast distance swimmers (last heat at New England Masters championship meets) do open turns the whole 1000. Didn't seem to slow them down. It's the push off that makes the biggest difference I think, not the flip. I'm not surprised to hear that some have success with open turn. I agree with what I want to say Coyote says but I don't think that's his name: especially for long distances, say, a hypothetical 10K, just streamlining off the wall, no kicking whatsoever, for me, saved me a lot of energy. It was my rest period. I don't kick neither off the wall, just streamline. To me, the key is to wait to breathe only after 2nd pull.