Several swim meets in Texas, in order to save time, will the swim the 200’s as “choice”. You pick to swim either fly, back, *** or IM and the heats can have different swimmers doing different strokes. When SCY Top Ten came out, I had two swims that weren’t listed. It turns out that the meet wasn’t submitted (a different issue). But in the course of my e-mails with TT, I learned that “choice” swims are not permissible for inclusion.
Are others aware of this rule? I checked the USMS Rule Book and, at a quick scan, could find nothing referring to this. I’ve never seen a meet entry that stated that 200s conducted in this manner are not TT eligible so I’m suspecting that some meet directors don’t know about it either.
Seems a bit weird. As a backstroker, I can guarantee that no advantage is gained having swimmers diving in next to you on the start or having the adjacent lane swimming fly. The swimmer is still swimming a verified time in a measured course. The only rationale I could come up with is the stroke and turn judges having difficulty keeping track of different types of swims.
Not worried about the TT times. They’re not the first, and probably not the last, that won’t get counted. And I guess you can always learn something new. I’m been racing USMS over 20 years and never knew about the “choice” event exclusion. But it would be interesting if someone could shed some light on this. I do know I won’t opt for a “choice” event again if I’m trying for a TT time.
Are "choice" events common at meets elsewhere? Any insights on this exclusion rule?
I am not an expert on the rules but believe everyone in the heat must be swimming the same event.I suspect it does have to do with the stroke and turn judges.I have never heard of choice events before.
New Jersey has a meet where you have a choice of a 200 fly, back, ***, and free but they are still in separate event numbers. You don't see the someone doing the 200 fly and 200 free in the same heat. Plus, a recent local meet in Philly had a similar thing.
Did you let the referee know before-hand what stroke you were swimming? I wonder if "choice" means that you won't be DQ'ed for stroke-specific rules (like two hands for fly and *** turns).
At this particular meet there were only backstrokers in my heat. But according to the TT person, it doesn't matter. The meet director is required to submit their entry form along with the times and if there are "choice" events, the times for those events are eliminated from TT consideration. I guess there is no way to verify retrospectively if the heats were mixed swims or just a single stroke.
"Choice" = "freestyle". You swam a freestyle time trial.
Every referee I've worked with has said you can combine time trial (or even non time-trial) events in the same heat, as long as there is a lane separating each event.
In USA Swimming, you need to have a lane between genders. In USMS, since you are allowed to have mixed events, I believe you could seed women and men together without a buffer lane, for the same distance and stroke.
-Rick
Did you let the referee know before-hand what stroke you were swimming? I wonder if "choice" means that you won't be DQ'ed for stroke-specific rules (like two hands for fly and *** turns).
Mark, we had to declare on the entry form which stroke we'd swim. And the heats were separated by stroke as best I can remember. I really only paid attention to my own heat.
Karlene,
In the Cleveland area, if we have a 2-day meet, we always do the 1st day as "open"......50, 100 or 200. (There is also usually a 400 IM offered, a distance free event and an 800 or 400 relay.) We enter which stroke that we will do in the "open" event (day 1) and on the next day, when the regular order of events happens, the meet director feeds our times from the afternoon/eve before into the computer and we place accordingly, after everyone has swum the particular event.
We have been doing this forever and the meet director for every meet was Pieter Cath (the PREMIER National Top Ten guy on the usms board) up until he passed away. He would've certainly known the RULES!!!!
So this is all news to me....a mystery.
xoxoxoxox
Ann
I think the problem may be how it is listed on the entry and how the results are reported. I have been to a meet where there is a 200 back, 200 ***, and 200 fly and you can only choose one, but you indicate what 200 you are entering and they are listed with different event numbers. The events may be combined and swum at the same time, but they are still different events. Results are listed normally with each event reported separately as stated in the entry.
As far as I know, there has been no problem with Top10 submissions.
Mark, we had to declare on the entry form which stroke we'd swim. And the heats were separated by stroke as best I can remember. I really only paid attention to my own heat.
I was trying to ask what osterber said much more clearly. To be clear, I think what you were told sounds (smells?) fishy as well. Just wondering if there was a simple way to avoid this situation in the future.
"Choice" = "freestyle". You swam a freestyle time trial.
I was in a meet back in March where they did this. You did have to indicate your choice on the entry form so as to have heats of the same stroke, as far as possible. Since entry closed two days beforehand, it was possible to set up heats of free, back, fly, etc. before it began.
There were two separate rounds of this, one at the beginning of the meet and one later on, after a break, so people could do it twice using different strokes if they wanted to.
