Competitive Progression

David - Just my :2cents:: In order to be competitive in the 50s and 100s, you should focus on: OUT OF THE WATER - Getting stronger and leaner, via weight-lifting, stretching, plyometrics, etc ... and diet IN THE WATER A healthy dose of fast swimming (always with good technique), alternating days with aerobic recovery and drill work in between. Swim faster than fast on the fast days, but easier than easy on the recovery days. The former would include: - 25s and 50s with lots of rest, swimming at 100% - 50s, 75s and 100s with moderate rest, swimming at 90-100%, focusing on lactate tolerance - broken 100s, swimming at 100%, focusing on race pace - fast kick sets (50s, etc) The latter would include: - timed swims - pulling - snorkel work - hypoxic work This is basically the program that I have been following for the 2+ years that I have been back in the pool (after a 20+ year layoff). It has helped my 50 and 100, but I am hopeless for a 200... Having said that, I always was more "fast twitch" in the pool, with my 100 being better than my 200. YMMV. I hope that ehoch and paul smith will reply, as their insights will be more valuable than mine.

I appreciate the perspective. I guess my point is I don't want to pay for meet registration and take up a weekend to finish dead last every time. I want to train to the point where at least I am keeping up with the pack and placing in the top half. I think I would be de-motivated if every meet I was last by a huge margin, so I am hoping to motivate myself in training first and go into the first meet with a reasonable feeling of accomplishment. Hi David, First of all, with the times you indicate I doubt you'd have to worry much about finishing last or even in the bottom half of your age group, especially at local meets. The Atlanta area meets have a pretty good smattering of people all over the board. I can understand not wanting to commit an entire weekend to a meet at first; have you checked out the developmental meets in the area? There are several during SCY season -- at Marist, Collins Hill, and there was even one at the new West Gwinnett pool in Duluth this past spring. I'm not sure of the dates or the locations, but that might be a good option for you as they generally last about three hours. Which Masters group do you swim with?

Only you can tell if you think you've been slacking off too much in practice, but a 25:42 (SCM), as I'm sure you know, is already more than competitive. If you're finishing "dead last" dropping that kind of time, then there are a number of extremely talented swimmers in your aread. I'm no longer really sure I understand your question... If you're asking "how long will it take for me to feel, in my own mind, that I'm well-trained for a meet" then I don't think anybody (but you) can answer that question. Just bear in mind that most people don't train more than a few days a week, and I'm sure most slack off to some extent. Well the particular meet only had 2 other swimmers in it for Masters for all of my events and both finished ahead of me. I wasn't far behind (within a second or so), so it was okay. I was sort of assuming that bigger meets would have more swimmers and more faster swimmers. I agree I have to answer the part about "feeling" when I was well trained myself. My goal in this thread was to see examples of successful master's swimmers and how they progressed torwards their goals. If I read about many swimmers doing X, then I would try to emulate X, if I saw a wide variation of what worked, then I would just try to adapt the various styles. Mostly I just didn't want my mantra to be something as simple as "workout any spare moment you have."

David - Just my :2cents:: In order to be competitive in the 50s and 100s, you should focus on: OUT OF THE WATER - Getting stronger and leaner, via weight-lifting, stretching, plyometrics, etc ... and diet IN THE WATER A healthy dose of fast swimming (always with good technique), alternating days with aerobic recovery and drill work in between. Swim faster than fast on the fast days, but easier than easy on the recovery days. The former would include: - 25s and 50s with lots of rest, swimming at 100% - 50s, 75s and 100s with moderate rest, swimming at 90-100%, focusing on lactate tolerance - broken 100s, swimming at 100%, focusing on race pace - fast kick sets (50s, etc) The latter would include: - timed swims - pulling - snorkel work - hypoxic work This is basically the program that I have been following for the 2+ years that I have been back in the pool (after a 20+ year layoff). It has helped my 50 and 100, but I am hopeless for a 200... Having said that, I always was more "fast twitch" in the pool, with my 100 being better than my 200. YMMV. I hope that ehoch and paul smith will reply, as their insights will be more valuable than mine. Do you think doing the weights in the morning is a good way to go? I think in high school we did 2 days a week weights in the morning, but I always hated it then because I love sleep. As far as the swim routine, I would love to have a sprint coach for this. The master's group I swim with tends to mix up things a lot, but more often than not, its a middle to long distance workout with the rare sprint training. I am concerned about "doing my own thing" in the master's workout because I am kinda there to get their workout, not my own. I also dont want to ask the coach for a special workout because there aren't always a lot of lanes and it would probably be annoying to the other swimmers. The other option is just to swim on my own for the sprint workouts and do the master's workout for the off days. Is that pretty common?

Hi David, First of all, with the times you indicate I doubt you'd have to worry much about finishing last or even in the bottom half of your age group, especially at local meets. The Atlanta area meets have a pretty good smattering of people all over the board. I can understand not wanting to commit an entire weekend to a meet at first; have you checked out the developmental meets in the area? There are several during SCY season -- at Marist, Collins Hill, and there was even one at the new West Gwinnett pool in Duluth this past spring. I'm not sure of the dates or the locations, but that might be a good option for you as they generally last about three hours. Which Masters group do you swim with? Dynamo Masters in Chamblee. Great team, workouts are challenging and have enough variety that I am rarely bored. Tends to be more middle to long distance focused, which isn't perfect for me, but it is helping me lose weight and I am making progress.

Do you think doing the weights in the morning is a good way to go? I think in high school we did 2 days a week weights in the morning, but I always hated it then because I love sleep. As far as the swim routine, I would love to have a sprint coach for this. The master's group I swim with tends to mix up things a lot, but more often than not, its a middle to long distance workout with the rare sprint training. I am concerned about "doing my own thing" in the master's workout because I am kinda there to get their workout, not my own. I also dont want to ask the coach for a special workout because there aren't always a lot of lanes and it would probably be annoying to the other swimmers. The other option is just to swim on my own for the sprint workouts and do the master's workout for the off days. Is that pretty common? I prefer to lift in the evening, after my noon or pm swim, as I am useless in the water directly after lifting. I also do a series of yoga-esque stretches Amazon.com: The Genius of Flexibility: The Smart Way to Stretch and Strengthen Your Body: Bob Cooley: Books and some ab work (though you couldn't tell by looking at me)... I lift every other day, unless I begin to develop shoulder pain or biceps tendinitis, in which case I back off or skip a session or two. I typically swim 5-6x per week, usually between 2,500-3,500 meters per session. Typical is 600-800 warm-up, 400-800 (speed) or 800-1,500 (aerobic) main set, and then 500-1,000 drill/technique/warm-down. Since I started swimming again, I have trained on my own 100% of the time. This has its pro's and con's: PRO'S - no need to do sets/workouts that are not directly related to my goals and objectives - swim on my own schedule - do "my own thing" CON'S - stuck training during lap swim, amidst noodlers, blue-hairs and other space-wasters - requires tremendous self-motivation (which I fortunately have) - no feedback from someone on deck (I am reliant on watching video of my races from Nationals, or post-race commentary from other swimmers) - no camaraderie from a team environment Doing the sprint workouts on your own and the recovery/aerobic swims with a team might be a nice solution.

The bizarre thing is that I really dont care about "winning". The medals at this age really are not what motivates me, it's more about me feeling like I have paid my dues during training. I don't want to swim for a few years only to get the sense that I was wasting time "slacking off" or "doing just enough". Going to meets and placing is just confirmation and motivation that I am putting in a good effort. This woman I swim with, she's in her mid 50s, she doesn't come in first her swimming events, but she keeps on swimming. She's done the 1 hour postal, 5K, and 10K this year. She's put in her time, but she's found a different reward from it all, and I think that's cool. I am more like you. I want to win. I ask myself, what difference does it make? I can't be 15 years old again, and winning now won't change the fact that I traded in my goggles for football cleats many years ago. If I want to have a long, happy, swimming career, then I think I need to find similar rewards in swimming that my 50 year old friend has found. I need to keep reminding myself of this. I might never break a 23.00 in the 50 free, but if by training for it, it helps keep cholesterol and blood pressure down, and inspires my children to want to swim, then maybe that's a good deal.

I swim three times per week about 3000-4000 yards and I do strength and conditioning 2 times per week. I'm 33 and close to my college times. If you want to sprint I suggest getting a good strength and conditioning program going. I made a big jump after about one year.

Also, I did do a 50 meters free in a meet about 9 months ago (after training for 1 month), my time was 25:42. I don't know if I have really improved much because up till now I have been off and on and my effort level has been more maintenance mode. Quoting myself because I needed to post a correction to this. OOOPS! I typo'd on this. This time was 25.42 in 50 YARDS free (short course), not meters. No wonder some of you were thinking I was doing better than I thought I was. I am going to update the original post as well if I can.

Say hello to Metz. You only need to be doing one workout a day, 5 days a week, say 3-4000 yards, and you'll be plenty competitive around here. I lived your story, only I'm 50 now and was out for 20 years. Weight, cholesterol...been there done that...lost 50 lbs. And I'm a sprinter, too (breaststroke.) My first three months back in 06, I averaged 15-18K a week and didn't compete until 5 months into it. My second year I got up to 37K at the high end. Never again...I settled into 15-25K this past year depending on the time of the season. Mark Thanks for the encouragement. I actually do swim with a coached Master's team here in the Atlanta area. I don't think I would ever do 3000m+ workouts without a coach. And I agree that workouts hurt more, I am just trying to grin and bear it right. Would be great to be a male version of Dara Torres at 41, but I bet her training schedule is INSANE!