Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

college guys changing into their clothes on the pool deck no matter who's watching. I still do this at 38! :D (under a towel of course, the ole' "towel change")

Is there some commandment from on high that demands one only take athletics seriously when they are under 25? See this article: sports.yahoo.com/.../news The man in blue was Willie Gault. A 48-year-old Willie Gault. The same Willie Gault who played 11 seasons in the NFL after getting drafted in the first round – in 1983. Decades later, Gault still has world-class speed. His 10.80 clocking at Mt. SAC a couple weeks ago – not bad for his first 100 of the season – was only seven tenths of a second slower than his personal best nearly 30 years ago.

I've been thinking about this "amusement" aspect. All swim meets are amusing in some way. 6 & unders crying before their races, college guys changing into their clothes on the pool deck no matter who's watching, Lezak drafting Bernard, Masters swimmers blowing out B70's... I'm glad that swim meets are amusing, and don't want them to change a bit. The pro football players who workout in the pool seem to change on the deck without any towel at all. I got a full frontal at Swim Atlanta the other day. I'm not complaining. True dat on the amusement part. And what may have seemed catastrophic in the past (my first 200 fly in 14 years), is now something I do look back on in amusement. Heck, my current 200 LCM fly could possibly be amusing to many. What the heck is so bad about being amused? Now something that was amusing to me today - practicing SDK at the gym pool (20x25 SDK no breathers w/ fins), I ALWAYS get people asking me if I'm a scuba diver! Suddenly, I've got a bunch of people in surrounding lanes trying to do what I was doing. Was pretty fun actually. . .

It seems pretty clear that your open water experience is limited. Most events are just as competitive as those swam in a pool; Olympians and the like. Times are very important, and recorded. There are All Americans and rankings. I admire your unorthodox style of backstroke and your speedy times, but you won't do squat swimming that way with the big boys. You are either trolling, or a complete nitwit... I vote for the latter. Don't dis people who can swim circles around you.

A little late to the game here, and not all the way through the thread, but this jumped out at me: Most would enjoy working out and racing for fun, but most don't feel it's "real" competition compared to their previous experience. Sometimes they are amused by what they see.Wow, what an incredibly elitist attitude. I doubt "most" think that, and I would venture to guess there are quite a few who would be horrified to know you are representing them this way. For those who are that arrogant: Some of us didn't have the opportunity for "real competition" in our younger days. I swam on a school team from 7-12th grade and loved it, but there were no age group opportunities where I lived. Because of finances and housing issues I landed at a college without a swim team. All my workouts there came from phone calls to my high school coach. My parents thought swimming, and all my other athletic endeavors, were irritating and expensive time sucks, so I didn't push the issue as much as I would've liked. Now I am (mostly) in control of my own schedule, have a spouse that understands my competitive nature, and the finances to go where I need to go to get the training I want. I don't see what's so wrong about that. :dunno: Should I continue to be penalized for not having better opportunities available to me in my youth, just to pacify the egos of those who did?

Apologies... I couldn't resist... Shark repellent needed for pool use says swimmer An Olympic medal winning swimmer whose name is being withheld by police pending notification of family and friends reported that immediately upon entering a pool during a local masters' workout, he was attacked and his back bitten as a woman on the deck screamed 'DIE, DIE, DIE!" The woman claimed, however, that she'd just been trying to get the attention of a friend named "Di" who had just entered the pool area. "It was pretty noisy," the woman said. "I was sure she couldn't hear me." But the swimmer was adamant about what he experienced. "I was terrified," he said. "I felt a bump as soon as I dove in, and suddenly there was a feeding frenzy. I'm lucky. I needed stitches, but I'll recover. Even so, I'll be taking this all the way to the Supreme Court for sheer mental anguish!" Attorney M.R. Negative has promised to represent the swimmer. "These people are turning into a pack of triathletes. We have to take action or it won't be safe anymore to go back into the water!" However, police reports indicated that what initially appeared to be a shark or a triathlete ("I saw fins, I swear I did!" said the swimmer) turned out to someone wearing a Jager suit. A rip in the suit fabric revealed that the attacker was human, although M.R. Negative contends, "just barely human. These people eat their young." Onlookers, however, downplay the incident. One observer who asked not to be identified said that the swimmer was laughing. "He didn't need stitches. He was IN stitches," the observer said, citing the swimmer's apparent amusement at the situation. She also noted that the alleged attacker was in fact the victim. "You'd go after someone who ripped your suit," she said. "It was self-defense! You don't know who's going to try to ban your swimsuit these days!"

I don't have any records and probably never will, but I don't understand why they are so meaningless. Are only records set in USA Swimming meaningful? Having a masters NR or WR seems pretty impressive to me. Are recent swims by Mike Ross or Rich Abrahams or SVDL or other masters studs really meaningless? Don't they reflect excellence at a given age? Or is age 40 or 50 just intrinsically less important than age 20 or 25? To me, my current life seems far more important than the past. Is he meaning to say that masters records are not a big deal or is he saying that masters swimmers are making too big of a deal out of getting a record? The behavior I've seen described so far does not seem appropriate in getting any record - world, USA, age-group, etc. Perhaps, though, society tolerates or looks past nutty behavior in young people getting records, but expect adults to play it cool. Perhaps we expect young people to be over the top about getting records because this is their world. They have no job or children to worry about. Perhaps we are not tolerant of adults that are as over the top as the kids because we think they should have other things to be focused on. Is this right? As the thread has developed and Mr. Negative has responded, it would seem to me that he is not devaluing USMS records, but instead does not understand the over the top behavior (in some individuals) that is going along with getting one.

I don't have any records and probably never will, but I don't understand why they are so meaningless. Are only records set in USA Swimming meaningful? Having a masters NR or WR seems pretty impressive to me. Are recent swims by Mike Ross or Rich Abrahams or SVDL or other masters studs really meaningless? Don't they reflect excellence at a given age? Or is age 40 or 50 just intrinsically less important than age 20 or 25? To me, my current life seems far more important than the past. I don't mean that what Mike Ross, Rich Abrahams, SVDL and many others accomplish is not important to them and many of us. I am personally in awe of their accomplishments as masters. I am not elite by any means as well, but I think in swimming what you do when you are at your peak is more important than when you are not (due to age, lack of fitness, etc.). I think Ande has a general rule that how fast you can go as a masters swimmer is largely defined by how fast you were at your peak. I am sure there are some exceptions, but not many. The only reason I have ever made a top ten in masters is because the many people that beat me in my youth don't participate in masters for whatever reason. Am I a better swimmer than them because I participate now? No, absolutely not. The participation in masters for health and fun is what is most important. Masters records and top tens are merely a side-show to keep some of us participating, motivated, and our egos stroked. Tim

The only legitimate point that one could make along these lines is that hyper-competitive jerks hurt the sport because they drive people out of it. Hyper-competitive is not a synonym for jerk. One can be the former without being the latter. I race against a lot of guys who I would consider hyper-competitive (I consider myself to be such in practically all aspects of my life ... just ask my daughter about our last backgammon game!), but none of them are jerks. A jerk will be a jerk whether they are competitive or not, fast or slow. ... but I think in swimming what you do when you are at your peak is more important than when you are not (due to age, lack of fitness, etc.)... I think otherwise. I'm far more impressed that my 63 year old father is still in the pool now still cranking out times and competing at the elite of his age group than I am with the fact that he once swam at USC in his late teens/early 20s. For those of us who were serious/hard core swimmers in our youth, we mostly were able to dedicate ourselves to our sport with little other distraction than school. Competing at an elite level in your 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s ... 90s requires balancing sooo much more that, to me, it's a more impressive feat.

Perhaps a liquor license is in order for all the venues at masters nationals and masters worlds? "Beer goggles" might give a few participants clearer vision. Great point. How can we possibly be having fun without beer? Hey, here's an idea. Why don't you and your bemused former national finalist friends just hang out in your backyard with a few six packs instead of suffering through an unpalatable Masters swim meet with a bunch of flabby old swimmers?