Masters Swimmers Acting Like Triathletes

I'll be paying the court settlement for years that was awarded to the 2 young ladies who were so severly traumatized that they are still in counseling... Elise & GoBears...I'll let Mr. Negative answer for himself...I can only speak from my perspective and guess as to what he is talking about. In my opinion he's calling out a handful of swimmers who take themselves so seriouslly that it's really not all that fun to be around. Laura mentions one case...I can think of another where a swimmer got out of the stands and ran to the edge of the pool screaming at the top of her lungs "DIE, DIE, DIE" at a person in the pool who was possibly going to break their record. Good avatar, Paul. I dare you to head out on your next bike ride similarly dressed. I think 99.9% of folks on the forum would agree that the behavior you mention is over the edge. Screaming at the person? I might be able to understand quietly muttering it or thinking it to oneself in the stands as one is watching his/her record be threatened. I hope somehow the person you mention was messing with the other person in fun, but I get the feeling she wasn't. If she was serious, I would have to agree that a masters record, or any record for that matter, is not worth acting the way you describe. From what I am gathering, there is not a problem with folks being hard-core about their training. It seems to be more about how people are manifesting their competitive nature. There does seem to be a certain amount of pressure from having been good in the past and coming back to compete for fun. I've seen people get in the face of former great athletes when they return to the competition arena for the first time in 10 years and after a race ask, "What happened to you? I beat you." Rather than encouraging the former greats to continue their comeback, some competitors take great delight in pointing out where the former greats went out too hard or messed up on their race. I can see why some former greats might ask themselves, "Is it worth coming back to race to put up with this crap? I just want to have fun and not have people getting in my face about my race." There is a price to be paid for having been good in the past, but I hope that the former greats out there won't continue to let a few nuts keep them from enjoying the comraderie of masters swimming.

I just composed a post a lot like gull's, but then I previewed it and gull already said it. Paul, you have pretty much completely rewritten "Mr. Negative"'s original post. If "Mr. Negative" had intended to criticize only a "handful" of people unhealthy enough to state without joking that they care more about their races than about their kids, he could have said so. Instead he made wide-sweeping statements insulting anyone who takes any aspect of masters swimming at all seriously, and reserving special insult for those who were not "elite" swimmers in their teens and twenties. So of course people who enjoy training and competing enough to frequent a swimming forum got "pissy and defensive." "Mr. Negative" said what he thought would get the biggest rise out of the most readers, which says more about Mr. Negative and his apt name than it does about any of the people who posted defensive responses.

Elise's comment seems to come closest to what I've been thinking as I've been reading this thread. I don't think the behavior being described/decried/defended is particular to swimming. These are things people do in any walk of life some people are incredibly competitive - about everything...how great their car is, how frighteningly brilliant and talented their children are, how fast they swim, how much vacation time they get some people think they make themselves feel big when they make others around them small - that bully kid in 4th grade, the gloating victor in a swim race, the girl who puts her boyfriend down in front of her friends some people like to argue Some people think they're all that some people are mean Some people have priorities that aren't ours Ack - I don't even know why I'm saying all this. I think I just don't get what the argument is...

Good avatar, Paul. I dare you to head out on your next bike ride similarly dressed. I think 99.9% of folks on the forum would agree that the behavior you mention is over the edge. Screaming at the person? I might be able to understand quietly muttering it or thinking it to oneself in the stands as one is watching his/her record be threatened. I hope somehow the person you mention was messing with the other person in fun, but I get the feeling he/she wasn't. If he/she was serious, I would have to agree that a masters record, or any record for that matter, is not worth acting the way you describe. From what I am gathering, there is not a problem with folks being hard-core about their training. It seems to be more about how people are manifesting their competitive nature. There are loose screws in every sport (as there are in every profession, hobby, etc.). That's a pretty extreme degree of attraction to one's record, but hopefully, this was some private joke between the two swimmers that they alone understood (though given reports of parents ganging up and beating up umpires who make calls against their children, anything is possible). Where does legitimate passion for a sport and competition spill over into something pathological? I think when there's lack of respect for one's competitor--or oneself. I can try my darnedest to beat the person coming up on me in a run or swim, but I respect that person's effort to keep me at bay as well. We're both battling not only each other but our own little voice that says "it's getting too hard... ease up!" Holding up against that is a shared enterprise. In the latter example, where the "former great" is treated condescendingly by the newcomer, that seems like a case of envy or insecurity--the person crowing over beating someone who doesn't get the marks s/he once did seems not to respect him/herself anymore than s/he respects the former great. But is this so frequent as to deter people from returning to competition? Or is it that people who behave disrespectfully are more readily noticed/remembered?

By golly, I don't think I ever criticized the esteemed Mr. Stevenson's accomplishments. He has reached lofty heights in competitive swimming. I salute them. Your yapping is tiresome. Sit. Good boy. Nice.

So of course people who enjoy training and competing enough to frequent a swimming forum got "pissy and defensive." "Mr. Negative" said what he thought would get the biggest rise out of the most readers, which says more about Mr. Negative and his apt name than it does about any of the people who posted defensive responses. I don't think most posters replying to the obviously trolling thread were "pissy and defensive" about their training, though it is convenient and no doubt amusing for Mr. Negative and his cohort to spin it thusly. At bottom, I think most were objecting to Mr. Negative's attitude, which seems to be almost universally viewed as arrogant and demeaning. Perhaps rather than labeling us, he should engage in some self reflection. And if he's really just talking about a few isolated whack jobs, then why make the statements Gull quoted so effectively? As far as hard work goes, well that's just SOP for many masters athletes in many sports. Nothing very controversial or exceptional about that.

I have to admit I'm pretty competitive...with myself mostly. I enjoy training and setting goals. I also like to win some races when I can. I'm pretty focused. I will also admit it can be a real bummer training with someone who is an a**hole to those around them because they are wound up too tightly about swimming. I'm not sure these people even realize the effect they have on their lane mates. And they are not bad people. But, I think those individuals do make it less enjoyable for those around them. But it isn't necessarily about swimming for them. It's an emotional immaturity. If you've spent enough time in the water you have encountered these individuals. They are lane bullies and selfish. What is more important? Making sure the set goes exactly as you planned it? Or, having a good relationship with your training partners?

Chris, I'm sorry if I offended you. I think you are a great ambassador for our sport. I was a bit put off by your diminishing the competitive nature of open water swimming. Having competed in both venues for decades, it has been my experience that equally serious competition takes place in OW. In addition, OW swimming seems to be a bit more tolerent to new competitors. As I said, your backstroke intrigues me. I wish I could swim that way, I've tried. It's just that I've never seen anyone win a serious OW event swimming on their back. My wife doesn't think I'm funny either. You are either trolling, or a complete nitwit... I vote for the latter. Don't dis people who can swim circles around you. You sound like that little pipsqueak dog in the cartoon, the one that stands a bit behind the big tough dog and goes "Ya me too."

If you've spent enough time in the water you have encountered these individuals. They are lane bullies and selfish. What is more important? Making sure the set goes exactly as you planned it? Or, having a good relationship with your training partners? Man. . . this statement makes me realize that rarely do sets go as I plan or want them to go! It's an unusual day when the set works out for me!!

As far as hard work goes, well that's just SOP for many masters athletes in many sports. Nothing very controversial or exceptional about that. I'm with you on that hard work Fort...trying to get into that plank postion and hold for more than :10!