FINA suit rules or anything goes?

Probably the most consequential thing he said was that FINA will very likely outlaw permeable materials altogether as of Jan 1, 2010. I wouldn't be too anxious to buy a LZR right now! Although I guess since they wear out after one meet it might not matter. :) Seems to me the biggest reason to buy a B70 or similar suit is that they last longer. If they switch back to textile suits, will someone be able to develop a suit that lasts longer than a few meets?

Makes it sounds like the other gossip about FINA not counting masters times at all or unless they were wearing an approved suit is BS then ... I don't know, Craig Lord's article (which has been recently updated slightly) certainly seemed to imply that FINA wasn't going to enforce the suit rules with masters swimming, similar to anti-doping controls. Forget about FINA for a second...I am a big believer that there should be minimal differences between USMS and USAS rules. The trend lately has been trying to lower barriers between the two (eg, the dual sanction thing) and this would be a huge step backward, IMO. "Observed" swims at masters meets would now also have to include what suit was worn, not just following USAS rules (eg, no butterfrog). I am also of the belief that butterfrog should be eliminated, but that's just me....

a cooling off period is needed by both agencies to get at the same table & work it out for US:applaud:, not the suit companies!:badday:

Probably the most consequential thing he said was that FINA will very likely outlaw permeable materials altogether as of Jan 1, 2010. I wouldn't be too anxious to buy a LZR right now! Although I guess since they wear out after one meet it might not matter. :) Kirk: outlaw permeable or non-permeable?

Chris- you are just jealous of the spiritual epiphany that is the Butterfrog and show that there any many turns of the wheel yet before you ascend to the luminousity of perfected stroking.

So do you also believe that all winners at nationals should be drug tested? If it weren't cost-prohibitive/impractical, sure. Just curious as to why? I sort of like having two different options to choose from. When I'm in my *boot camp, hard core* years, I do USS. When I opt for a more relaxed option, it's USMS. I don't see USS as any more "hard core" than USMS. I just don't think it should be such a pain to get times transferred between the two. It isn't like they are different sports (or they shouldn't be).

I am a big believer that there should be minimal differences between USMS and USAS rules. So do you also believe that all winners at nationals should be drug tested? How about “athlete members must be under the supervision of a USA Swimming member coach during warm-up, competition, and warmdown”? Or the real clincher “Alcoholic beverages are prohibited in all areas of the venue”:chug:

If anyone needed additional insight into why FINA and its bobo's have made a mess of the tech suit issue, check out this interview with John Leonard, desperately trying to "clarify" the methodology and science behind their recent decisions: www.floswimming.org/.../185650-front-line-of-the-fina-suit-fiasco- This is an embarrassment, and IMHO shows how a few vocal "experts" can skew an entire discussion and the resulting regulations.

Forget about FINA for a second...I am a big believer that there should be minimal differences between USMS and USAS rules. Just curious as to why? I sort of like having two different options to choose from. When I'm in my *boot camp, hard core* years, I do USS. When I opt for a more relaxed option, it's USMS.

Not sure if anyone has posted this yet... http://www.robaquatics.com Craig Lord (SwimNews) responded directly to Rob Dumouchel's SoCal Masters Blog after Rob posted a blast to Lord's article discussed on this thread. Rob's orininal letter is below Lord's comments here. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Craig Lord said... Dear Masters. Craig Lord here. I have updated the "time to chose your weapon" article to leave no-one in any doubt that it is not my spin but FINA's position: Here is the first line of an e-mail response from FINA: "Your question is very easy to answer: the rules do not apply to Masters." How could that have been misunderstood? That out of the way, I'd like to make it clear: I think masters swimming is terrific. I love it that there is a vehicle for fun, fitness, health and even competition for those who no longer wish to race in the elite pool and for those who never got to race in the elite pool at the highest of levels for a whole spectrum of reasons. I think there is a vocal minority of masters who enter the masters fray with an edge beyond the fun, fitness, health etc reasons, and seem to claim some kind of ownership of masters. In pursuit of their fast-suit agenda they are prepared to leap on every word I write (and I write many) and make a caricature of it. So be it. But some things being written are simply false. The idea that I have never sat through a masters meet is ridiculous. I have even raced as a master. I don't make it a habit. I swim regularly to maintain a heart beat that wakes at 36 to this day after many years of 14 to 18km of training a day that I enjoyed and that took me to about the speed of Petra Schneider on a 400m medley. I have a lot of friends who race in masters swimming. Derek Parr, a Reuters corr and a winner at world level in the 200m 'fly a few years back, is among them. I look forward to hearing from him and what he's up to and where he's at. I love his attitude and approach to masters. He does it because it brings him great pleasure and keeps him healthy and fit and keeps him in touch with a great group of people. Beyond that, I love masters for the kind of things I have seen from Shane Gould: the example, the role model, the lifelong learning about water and water skills. Gould has so many lessons from which we can all learn, and from which the sport itself can learn, lessons that could help avoid repetitive strain injuries, lessons that could help kids learn about water in an enlightening way that helps them to become better swimmers and have more fun. I hope that makes it all clear for you. Enjoy the swim. Kind regards, Craig June 11, 2009 12:19 AM ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (Rob's original letter) Tuesday, June 9, 2009 An Open Letter to Craig Lord from a Real Live Tech Suit Wearing Masters Swimmer **I apologize in advance if you're sick of hearing about the suit debacle, but today I'm kind of pissed off and this is my blog so I'll rant if I want to :) Generally the best thing you can do with a troll on the internet is to ignore it, and that's what I usually do with Craig Lord over at SwimNews.com. Despite the name, his site is more about ranting against tech suits than actual swimming news. Today he did 2 things that really get under my skin 1) He caused even more tech suit confusion by posting what appears to be opinion as fact 2) He belittled masters swimmers in the process. -Rob D.** Mr. Lord- Your post this morning has been stewing in my head all day. It makes me mad that you would take pot shots at masters swimming and that you would spin what masters is doing in regards to the suit debacle in such a way that it makes masters swimmers more confused as to what they can and can't do in the competition pool. You said: "FINA has given suit makers a green light to press ahead with every technological experiment in the world of masters swimming. The conclusion is clear: in such a playground, the doping suit will be developed and the cost of swimming in masters for those who wish to remain competitive will soar." Really? Do you have proof of that? No one else has seen or heard anything that confirms this. If this exists some where in writing I'm sure we'd all love to see it. I would think Swimming World Magazine (who does see masters swimming as worth covering and does so proactively) would have said something about this if it were legit. Currently USMS is on hold waiting for FINA to make some actual decisions and in the meantime they are allowing previously approved suits to stay legal. Not really all that radical. It looks like German Masters are taking the same approach and various National Federations feel removing certain suits from their countries is premature because FINA isn't done testing and approving suits. Can you imagine the mess we'd have if we had to outlaw suits and then just 60 days later they were good to go again? Not an effective use of time and energy. USMS has basically said once FINA steps up and actually bans suits then they'll decide what to really do about all of this. They may still come in line with FINA's directive, they're just waiting for FINA to figure out what the hell it's actually doing. Seems fair enough to me. "SwimNews does not cover masters swimming. It is the equivalent of the fun marathon, in which level playing fields are very relative indeed. The purpose is fun, fitness, health and skills for life. Most approach it in that spirit. A minority take it very seriously indeed and vanity, disposable income and time-on-their-hands all play a part. It is to those people in particular that a playground of fast suits (and keep an eye on that price range aimed at the grey market in the US) may appeal." First off high five for disparaging a group that probably makes up a good portion of your readers, we find that endearing. Yes a good majority of us swim just for fun and don't compete, but basically if we're not elite we should just get out of the competition pool? Are we vain for enjoying swimming and racing? Is there something wrong with a masters swimmer wearing the same suits as the elite crowd? Do you really think we're all out there because we have nothing better to do? I have to make time to go swimming, and I'm sure most other masters who are juggling careers and families with swimming have to do the same. If you ever spent some time around some masters swimmers you'd find them to be quite the opposite of what you've painted us as. It's a group of people getting together to support each other in trying to swim as fast as they can for whatever age they may be. I'm sure our record holders take a lot of pride in the national and world records they have set but I doubt it is vanity that gets them into the pool to train. "FINA, appears to be making it up as it goes along, under pressure from a vocal and wealthy sector of the masters movement in the US, where the governing body for masters is sponsored by the maker of suits that may no longer be used in the elite pool, and under pressure from those who refuse to give up hope that fast suits will remain a lucrative market for them. "I agree that FINA has made a complete mess of the whole situation, but do you really think there is some kind of big money US masters swimming cabal that is silently guiding swimming towards "suits that interact directly with the central nervous system?" You realize that's crazy talk right? USMS is a volunteer driven organization with a few employees dude, we're not out there bullying international organizations into doing what we want. Oh and by the way... yes BlueSeventy is a sponsor, but not out only sponsor. Nike, Speedo, and TYR are also supporters of USMS. Tech suits are a lucrative market for all of them, not just B70. I could go on and on, but here is the basic point to my little rant... Masters is a vibrant organization that has thousands of swimmers that are focused on swimming fast because they love it, not because they're vain or have some kind of secret tech suit spreading agenda. If you really have strong feelings for the sport of swimming you wouldn't attack an organization that provides opportunities for people to extend their love affair with swimming into their 90's and beyond. Also don't flame bait our community just for traffic. The article today is going to cause even more confusion and speculation around the suit issue that we don't need. I look forward to ignoring SwimNews in the future. Your Friend, Rob D.